06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

Discussion in 'General RVing' started by BigVClay, May 5, 2006.

  1. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

  2. BarneyS

    BarneyS Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Be aware also, that if you click on the link above, you will also be automaticly sending an e-mail to the Monaco Coach Corporation! :eek: That fact should be mentioned in the post above!
    Barney
     
  3. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    You do not understand electrical ratings. The rated current load is based upon a voltage of exactly 120V and that is seldom ever the case. As the voltage falls below that level, an ac motor will draw more current. Also, if the voltage should rise a little above the 120V, things like the water heater element will draw more than the rated current.

    Second, the 30A rating of a circuit breaker is what it is rated to carry 80% of the time, not 100% of the time. Thus if you load it to 29.4A it is almost certain to trip since that leaves only about .06% for margin of error.

    Your tactic to make it seem that every visitor to your site is agreeing with you is less than ethical, and particularly so since you don't tell people that it will happen until after they are already on your site. I am no particular friend to Monaco Corp. but I have serious doubts about this entire story, based upon the lack of ethics of your tactics.
     
  4. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    I understand fully well basic AC theory. I am an electronic engineering technician and have been in the field for 25 years. You have failed to see my point. The point is....Monaco Coach engineering staff has designed an electrical system where by the 3 major electrical appliances A/C, refrigerator, and water heater, are consuming greater than or equal too, 90% of the total current capacity. As measured and verified by the DEALER on a optimal power source this leaves me 3 amps to power the remainder of the appliances in the rig. There is not an Elec. Eng. that I have known in my 25 plus years of service, who would EVER design such a system so close to the limit. This in my opinion is a system that was designed for failure, especially when the sales person, who when asked point blank, if all appliances could be ran off electric said "YES". And if read thoroughly, you would see that this was just ONE of the TWELVE (12) things wrong with this rig.

    As consumers we've all been screwed by corporate America at some point in time. The usual response is to lay down and take it. I for one am tired of taking such abuse. And have found that this is an excellent tool to let these large companies know that others are aware of whats being said or done. Do you really think that all the complaining on a forum is getting to them? The answer is NO.

    Sometimes you got to stand up for yourselves and others for what is right.

    We as consumers deserve the get better for the money we shell out. You can't change something by laying down. Most people take the position when they get taken is, "oh, woe is me". Why not "HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT"?
     
  5. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Welcome to the forum BigVClay but, being an electronic engineerimg tech for 25 years I would think you would have realized before you purchased the unit that 30 amps would not do the job. Not taking up for the salesperson but, he probably had no clue. Would also like to see more info on your profile. JMO but, think you will have to lay down on this one. Good luck and keep us posted on how it turns out. Some come on here and post and never follow up on the problems.
     
  6. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    I would have checked into the current ratings, but, Monaco is very careful not to SPEC ANYTHING. Even after we purchased the rig, all documentation provided with each electronic appliance carefully lists voltage requirements ONLY. NO CURRENT LOADING SPECIFICATIONS. The only way I knew how much these 3 appliances were drawing was to complain enough that the dealer finally measured each. That's when I found out these 3 appliances were drawing 90% of the total current capacity.

    Yes, I should have been more careful and more leary. But, when spending $30,000 one would think that the rig would supply enough current to run the enternal appliances. After all......that's what Monaco engineers are supposed to be getting paid for.

    If the post remains when this is concluded, I will inform all.

    I don't lay down....you have to knock me over.
     
  7. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Don't have an answer as to why they build the units so close to rated specs other than cutting coners. lot of flaws in the design and engineering of most rvs IMO but, as long as we keep buying them doubt that anything will change. I think this is the reason the mfgs rename their units ever so often. I have also noted that some dealers change brands quite often. Is this your first rv? If so hope it does not sour your opinion of camping. The rvers you meet make it worthwhile. As bad as I hate to admit it might take toyoto are some foreign mfg to jump in and build some units to wake up our builders. It happened in the auto industry.
     
  8. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    It does not sour my opinion on camping. We as a family have been camping for years. Just getting a little older now and the comforts of an RV are appealing to someone of my age. This IS however our first purchase of a large RV. We've done the tents and used to have a used pop-up that didn't have NEAR the problems that this thing did. I have a copy of the email that was sent, listing about 12 problems, if you are interested in seeing. Maybe people would be more understanding of my frustrations if I provided the detailed list of items.

    Yes, I agree with you......good ole American made products. That's why I use foreign made vehicles for reliable commutor transportion. However, I'm still a Chevy man when it comes to a tow vehicle. And yes, I too believe, that the Asian invasion (no offense intended) of automobiles in this country, made the big 3 step it up a notch....or two. American made vehicles today are much more reliable then they were in my parents time.

    It's very frustrating when you pour so much of your hard earned money into something that isn't up to par.
     
  9. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Updated my profile and took a gander at your's.

    Say, is Six Mile near Eight Mile? :laugh: :eek: We go through 8 Mile on our way to Florida.
     
  10. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Right, wrong, or indifferent, what Monaco says about the loads in their RVs that have a 30A power cord being the norm in the industry is correct. I do believe that they have some serious quality control issues, based upon the experience of three friends who have had a less than satisfactory experience with their products. Even so, I do not know of one RV manufacturer who does not sell RVs that have a 30A power cord and also have the same loads that your RV has. In fact, they even have the exact same appliances in them. At the same time, there is plenty of room to criticize the RV industry and a knowledgeable sales person should have known that you would not be able to operate all of your loads at one time. I do think that because that is common knowledge among we who are experienced RV owners, we may at times believe that everyone should know, perhaps without justification. I think that the issue here should be more with the lack of ethics of your sales person for not warning you of that fact, rather than with Monaco for building to a standard that is almost universal in the industry. If there are 11 other problems with the RV, you may well be justified in your dislike of the company, but this one is a poor choice to demonstrate. Without great detail, why not list the other issues as you may well get much more empathy.

    One issue that you have not addressed is your questionable ethics of posting a link to a site that any visit will trigger a message to Monaco, and not having had the courtesy to let anyone know that before they visit. Does one bad deed justify another?
     
  11. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Guess it would be two miles from me :laugh: :laugh: . No , I don't think there is a 8 mile around here. I am about 40 miles south of Birmingham Al.
    Good to see you posted more on your profile. I get kind of leary of post that have only names and no more info but, I understand how some feel about posting all info on these things. No privacey any more anyhow. Somebody is allways watching or listening :eek: . yes, I would also like to see the other problems. Post them here or e mail
     
  12. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Mind you some of these are quite small. BUT, to have this many problems on a brand new rig is quite surprising to say the least. Makes me think our rig was built on Friday just before closing time. :dead: The dealership is also working with us to get the electrical part taken care of. He agrees with the fact that there were no electrical upgrades available with this rig considering all that was in it. There IS however the upgrade available for Travel Trailers...but not the 5th wheels. :blush:

    I'll let ya know how it all works out.


    1.) The "Main" breaker can not handle the current load of the three major appliances
    AC, refrigerator and water heater. If these three appliances are on the "Main" breaker
    will trip randomly.

    2.) Water is collecting on the main shelf under the bedroom window after a rain shower.
    Water stains are visible in the two top drawers under the main shelf. I do not know
    exactly where this leak is coming from. My guess is the bedroom window, however
    it could also be along the seam where the rubber roof meets the front cap.

    3.) There is also a leak under the kitchen sink. It appears to be coming from the cold
    water feed line to the faucet cold water valve.

    4.) I also noticed water collecting in the sub floor storage compartment directly under
    the bathroom sink.

    5.) The kitchen dinette seat cushions do not fit in the space provided to convert the
    dinette into a bed. This allows the cushions to move around under the person
    trying to sleep on them. I also had to remove and reinstall the rear most bench from
    the floor because the two benches were not parallel to one another making it impossible
    for the table top to seat correctly between the two benches.

    6.) The rear most window (small window) on the "Slide Side" of the rig, the holes that are
    drilled in the window frame to accommodate the spring loaded window latches are not
    drilled parallel to one another allowing only one window latch to work properly.

    7.) Black water tank level indicator does not indicate accurately. I had waste water backed
    up into the toilet and the indicator was still reading 2/3 full.

    8.) There is a rubber strip mounted on the top of the living area slide that is mounted incorrectly.
    It obstructs the "Sweeping" action of the top outer most seal therefore allowing excessive
    water and debris to be pulled inside the rig when the living area slide is retracted.

    9.) The thermostat is not even closely calibrated.

    10) Emergency break-away switch.....COMPLETE ELECTRICAL MELT DOWN.

    11) Have to "slam" main entry door to shut properly.
     
  13. Krazeehorse

    Krazeehorse New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Have you investigated the lemon law in your state?
     
  14. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    It may be industry standard...but...it's an industry standard because we ALLOW them to make that way. We don't say anything otherwise to show our distaste in the way they want to do things to cut corners.

    The fact is these 3 appliances are drawing more than 90% of the total current capacity on a 30 AMP system. If the system were upgraded to 50 AMPS, these same 3 appliances would only be drawing about 54%...........it's a no brainer!!! This would leave me enough current to turn on the lights and TV!!

    The email that is being sent to Monaco is anonymous and it doesn't say wether you agree or disagree. It mearly states that another person has read the complaint. Here is an example of the email that is being sent.

    This letter is being sent to notify Monaco Coach Corporation that I have posted a complaint at www.TheSqueakyWheel.com and another potential customer has just viewed the complete details of my complaint!

    At this time, my complaint has been viewed by 458 people.

    Because this page has been indexed by 5 major internet search engines more people will be viewing it shortly.

    If you would like to resolve this complaint, I may be contacted via e-mail.
     
  15. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Yes, I have investigated the Lemon Law in our state. And as such, everything is being documented and saved.
     
  16. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Now you have posted some things that are clearly issues that are valid. Any water leak from any source is a serious concern and should be repaired by the dealer under warranty ASAP! The window problem is also very valid and I would expect a new window, rather than a repair if my reading of your description is correct. Most of the waste tank indicators are adjustable and the dealer should have no problem in correcting that issue. And #8 & 10 also should be fairly easy to correct. On #11, it is hard to say as many RV doors require a pretty good shove to close and latch, mostly because they don't weigh as much and most doors do. But it too is one that is subjective so I would not give an opinion at all. The brake away is safety equipment and should clearly be a warranty issue.

    On numbers 1, 5(the cushions), and 9 I have some doubts about, but clearly you do have some serious issues that should be addressed. If I were to do the web site, I think that I would suggest the use of the leaks as the lead issue since those are the most destructive of the issues you have if not corrected.
     
  17. Hancock

    Hancock New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Hey BigVClay,

    I for one support you fully for your frustration and ranting for the poor design and workmanship from Monaco. I also feel that the general purchasing public should have every right to expect the manufacturer to be the experts and furnish a technically correct and fully functional product. We should not make excuses for them…..because it has become an industry norm to be deficient. To expect that each and every consumer of RVs is going to be competent to pickup on the technical aspects of their purchase is arrogant non-sense.....a small percentage are. Most buyers are faced with trusting the manufacturer and the selling dealer to be fair and honest. Also I would suggest that you not be dis-heartened by the arrogance of some of the "know it all..forum police" who apparently don't have anything better to do than to police our post by their standards. Dare say, if you said it was white....they would say it is black. I also have a Monaco product and also have a good list of design and workmanship issues. So rant on......and let’s hope that Japan, Korea or China will enter the RV manufacturing business soon.
     
  18. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Leroy, I thought we all just gave Bigv our honest opinion. Reading all the post I think we agree that some of the problems are truly poor work by the MFG and selling dealer. As to the problem, which was the only one mentioned in the original post, of kicking the circuit breaker. I agree that it is terrible engeneering but most all 30 amp rvs are built like this. Not just Monaco. Are we willing to quit buying, I don't think so. Remember that all our post are just our honest opinions and most here are willing to share them. Really don't know who you was refering to as forum police but some of us have been here from the begining and this is the most helpful group of any forum on the net IMO.
     
  19. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Hancock, this isn't a contest of "know it alls". This is not a forum for debates, as there are other forums for that. This is an RV forum. Each one of us adds what we know or an opinion about a subject (usually RV topics, but not always). Your comment about "know it all..forum police" is totally over the top. You've only had 9 posts to the whole forum. Please give the forum more posts before you form an opinion about how you get treated here. I think all have treated BigVClay with due respect.

    One way I handled the specmanship of the manufacturer of my MH is to get the salespeople of "the other guys" working for me. Even though I'm from Texas, I used Missouri's motto quite often; "Show me!"
     
  20. BigVClay

    BigVClay New Member

    06 Starwood LX FW "Buyer Beware"

    Wow!! That's my first reaction to the previous 3 posts above.

    My second is to respond accordingly.

    First off, Hancock, thanks for your support and understanding in what I'm trying to accomplish here.

    Second, I have to say to the rest of the posts including Hancock's. I appreciate each and everyone of you that have responded. "Forum Police"?...I haven't experianced that here like in all other forums, yet. I have a problem with a Manufacterer and have posted. I have received some wonderful responses to what seems to me some pretty outstanding people on this forum....unlike the other forums. From the other forums the "forum police" have completely erased all my posts and responses, because I was in total disagreement to a product. Hence, Hancock, your saying "if I say if was white...they say it's black".

    Because of the ability to voice my opinions openly on this forum, I think I'll stay ;) :kiss:

    I encourage all and any responses, be it for my case or against it. I also encourage any and all suggestions. I am an open minded person and expect other's to have that same right.

    I am a newbie when it comes to RVing and therfore cannot give many suggestions.....but hope in the future, I can. Until then, I am enjoying the suggestions that is given to me and love to read what other's have posted about the same problems that I have encoured during our outings. Especially the stinky toilet :dead: :dead: :dead: .

    Again, thanks to all and I am still in the process of resolving my original issues. :kiss: :kiss: The dealership is finding some surprising responses from Monaco and is also disputing some things with them.
     

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