Allison Transmission Questions

Discussion in 'General RVing' started by AllisonMan, Apr 5, 2003.

  1. AllisonMan

    AllisonMan New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    icrman,
    I do not know if it is a transistor nor do i care since we do not repair the boxes, which by the way are called ECU's.The voltage required to run the solenoids is 9.6 volts. It is a Motorola.
    The planetaries are made of cast iron and the pinions are hardened steel.The clutches can be be what we call Dynax material and some graphite. There are brass plates even in some models.
    I know what you are trying to do but may I ask you why I would need to know this? I do not care what these are made of, my concern here is to ansewer operating questions to help people so they can save money and not get ripped off.If you read my first post, it says i enjoy answering these questions, but you are taking the fun out of it.
    I take a week sir because I work many hours and I do this on my spare time at home with no pay.
    What about it people, would you like me spending more time with this needless information, or answer your question. I hope it is answer questions and meet you. Please let me know hat you think.
    IC, I dont mind you answering but you are giving wrong answers in some cases. I work and deal with the allison engineers on a daily basis. Well sorry to all the other wonderful people and I look forward to answering your DIAGNOSTIC questions. Thank you.
    P.s. just say the word and i wont come back. Let IC and trans answer if you think they can which I do not think they are 100% correct and I would challenge them to see if ANY of my answers are wrong.
     
  2. icrman

    icrman New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Allisonman, when I tried to answer a question, it was to help, not to do anything else. And no I really wasn't trying to do a thing with the questions. They are things I really wanted to know.
    My Trimmer valve question was also legit.
    I don't want to see you toss in the towel because of me. You are doing a great service. And I won't butt in, if I have a question then I will ask.
    I vote you stay.
     
  3. sepisllib

    sepisllib New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    AllisonMan.

    My Vote --- STAY!

    Bill
     
  4. Bush70

    Bush70 New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    PLEASE DON'T let one bad apple spoil it for the people that truly appreciate and need you. PLEASE stay. You are helping many and this is alot of fun also. I am sure most feel the same way.
    Thanks for everything
    Bill
     
  5. hfletcher

    hfletcher New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    AllisonMan keep your thread going - look at its history - it's been, and will continue to be, a tremendous help to many, many people. Like Bush70 said "PLEASE DON'T let one bad apple spoil it for the people that truly appreciate and need you." I would have said, 'Don't let one spoiled, bad apple ruin it for the people that truly appreciate and need you', because it was obvious to me that icrman was purposely tormenting you. Let's examine his posts and attempt to discern the truth. I do this at the risk of alienating some other members but I knew that AllisonMan would consider terminating his thread as a result of icrman's badgering, and I feel it is important that I do all I can to discourage that.

    Things began to deteriorate shortly after icrman started answering questions directed specifically to AllisonMan. AllisonMan took offence and sepisllib supported AllisonMan's position. And AllisonMan politely warned me and others to beware of icrman's answers since he (AllisonMan) did not agree with a few of them.

    After icrman discovered that other members thought he was intruding, he became indignant: "Well I didn't see all those posts yesterday, about me butting in on this discussion. I thought all these public forums, were for everyone to be able to write in, and offer some help if they can. This is the first time I have ever been chastised for trying to offer help and extra ideas. I didn't see anything, anywhere that said this disscussion was off limits.
    Allisonman is a great help here, and I don't want to make an enemy. But I also have some years of Automatic Transmission experience, though very little on the "Newer Allisons", I have years of heavy equipment, truck, Diesel and gas engine, some aircraft engine, experience. Plus many many years of Machinist experience. So I do know a little bit about mechanics. I also hold an FCC License that atests to my electronics back ground. I do respect the man, but I don't appreciate being chastised for what appears as stepping on someones turf. That is very childish. Sorry I upsetted anyone"

    Sepisllig again supported AllisonMan's position.

    Then came the following post from icrman, which I knew would jepardize the thread: "Setting up another thread, seems a bit redundant. This one is Called Allison Transmissions. People looking for information shouldn't have to hunt all over the place. Transrand answered my question. It was ignored in my first post. Allisonman takes a whole week or so to come here to answer questions. And besides just like going to see a Doctor, don't you like a second opinion?
    Okay I have a question or two. In the Allison transmission electronic shift controller "box" what actually operates the shift solenoids? Is it a transistor? If so what kind is it? And how is it biased? Also what is the voltage and power required to operate the shift solenoids? What kind of processor is used in the controller? Motorola?? I would like to know the material that the planet carriers are made from, and if it is heat treated. Is it specific to a certain model or series that they would use different materials for the carriers or different heat treats? What do they Rockwell at?
    How about the clutches, are they paper? Or something else? I would really like the answers, because I don't know the newer transmissions at all"

    I think everyone should reread the above post. In my mind, there is no sincere question-asking here - only badgering! Icrman profiles himself as "Machinist/mechanic/engineer". As an engineer, I believe icrman should know where to find answers to his own questions; particularly detailed engineering questions like, what kind of transistor operates the shift solenoids in the controller box. And how is it biased? Really??? Icrman claims to be the engineer, why should he be asking engineering questions of another member who makes no claims of being an engineer that I am aware of. And the planetaries - what do they rockwell at if they are heat treated and on, and on.

    When I read the above post I was insulted, and I wanted to apologize to AllisonMan for what I saw as gross rudeness on the part of icrman. But I held silent, hoping this would blow over. It didn't.

    Finally let me examine the quality of icrman's answer to the question I asked of AllisonMan since I was warned by AllisonMan to beware of that answer. I asked: "Hi AllisonMan! I am about to install an MT643 into a Cummins powered Dodge pickup but I have recently been warned that this large tranny will rob excessive horsepower and significantly reduce my fuel mileage. I chose this tranny because my engine develops approximately the rated torque (700 ft lbs) of this tranny, and I want the lockup torque converter. Is it true that this will be a bad combination, i.e. large power loss and fuel mileage loss? Can these losses be mitigated by a specific torque converter ratio or by other means. I already own this rebuilt tranny."

    Icrman replied: "The losses in the larger transmission should not be too much more than on a smaller Automatic transmission. . . " GREAT! That's just what I hoped to hear; however, I'm still confused since two other Allison technicians I've consulted subsequently disagree - and so does AllisonMan.

    So I asked again, hoping for quantitative information: "Thanks icrman! Can we be more specific regarding hp/torque losses associated with an Allison mt643. Is there anything published in this area which would allow me to make a comparison with other transmissions?"

    Icrman answered: "It would be a bit difficult to be specific on the losses in the various automatic transmissions available. Unless you have access to a transmission dynomometer, or the engineering data from the manufacture. Modern Automatic Transmissions, and even some of the older Automatics are really very efficient. Too many people are under the false impression that an automatic is less efficient than a manual operated unit. I would say the automatic should actually beat the manual, because manuals in most cases use thicker oil, and have the gear sets constantly running in it. It is like a big cake mixer constantly churning that oil. And that robs power. Where as the automatic has in most cases one variable displacement pump, and the gear sets run in much thinner oil. (Fluid) The gears are not constantly submerged in the oil like the manual unit.
    To answer your question the only thing in the larger transmission that would create an increase in drag, is the size of clutch plates, when released there is a certain amount of parasitic drag on them. But I don't think it is enough to be concerned about. If I find some info I'll let you know."

    As I see it, this answer is so erroneous it is laughable. Without refuting each statement let me simply point out that icrman believes automatic transmissions are more efficient than manual tranasmissions. I believe that conclusion is so rediculous that it makes unbelievable every word that comes out of his mouth. Thanks AllisonMan, for alerting me to this. Don't worry I did see thru his words and continued hoping you would respond despite his distractions: I said: "Happy holidays, AllisonMan! Thank you for your reply. I was hoping you would reply despite the fact icrman had. I respect your opinion that the MT643 is overkill but allow me to make two points which might mitigate this. First, the fueling of my Cummins has been turned up considerably and is usable as I also have an aftermarket twin turbo setup, enlarged intake and exhaust. Thus, the torque of the engine is approximately 800 ft.lbs. which exceeds the 670 ft.lb. torque rating of the MT643. Secondly, I already own the rebuilt MTB643 and SAE2 bellhousing. I hate to think this must become wasted funds. Therefore, I'd still like to use it IF it does not significantly demise fuel economy and/or engine torque/horsepower. That is why I've asked specifically for your professional evaluation of those two aspects. When you say "overkill" it is not clear to me whether you mean the tranny is simply too heavy or large for a one ton pickup, or whether you mean it is too massive for the Cummins 6bt to rotate efficiently. I understand this 700 pound trans will put me very near my front axel limit, and that I must either raise the body two inches or modify the tunnel to accomodate the SAE2 bellhousing etc. Thanks for your patience. HFletcher"

    PLEASE STICK AROUND ALLISONMAN, I DON'T BELIEVE ICRMAN CAN REPLACE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. sepisllib

    sepisllib New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hfletcher - Great post.

    I was kind of feeling like I started something - but I tend to stick up for the moral and ethical thing to do. It was MHO that AllisonMan was the one that started this thread - it was his expertise and none other.

    Hope everyone isn't too upset that I tackled what I felt to be an injustice.

    God Bless

    Thank you for your post and specifics

    Bill
     
  7. Headquarters

    Headquarters New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hello Folks,

    I am mostly a lurker in these parts. I have been remiss in not advising Allison Man that I have gained from has advice, offered to some folks with similar rigs as mine(93 5.9 Cummins, 3060 Allison). Last time out I encountered rough downshifts, I read AllisonMan,s advice,that this was probably a disconnected TPS. I had the rig serviced last week and advised service man to look for a problem with the TPS. Sure enough it was disconnected, cotter pin had apparently fallen out. It was repaired at no additional cost to me.

    I want to tell Alllison man, it isn't just the folks he replys to, but lots of Lurkers like myself who gain much from and appreciate greatly the time he spends here. I am planning to head South this weekend, then a Western trip planned for May/June. I hope to meet Allison Man in Portland about the time my rig needs service.
    AllisonMan, your advice is appreciated more than you know. Please don't stop.
     
  8. mistaVR4

    mistaVR4 New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hello Allison Man & all,

    I have just signed up here because I need some "how too" information for a friend of mine, I personnaly don't own an Allison equipped truck (which would be really nice) maybe someday. :)

    Anyway, my friend owns an 03' Chevy Silverado 2500HD, Allison equipped. He is not very internet inclined and asked me if I could try to find some type of tutorial (preferably with pictures) of how to change his transmission fluid and other routine maintinance, apparently his dealer is asking rediculous prices, for very simple tasks such as these. I've tried searching around a little bit and came up empty, so, I figured this would be a good place to try.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

    Thanks for you time.

    -Steve
     
  9. mike3342

    mike3342 New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    AllisonMan.Hello.I also specialize in allison automatics.I currently work for a Detroit Diesel\Allison distributor in the midwest.I am also in the Allison Guild.I just happened upon this forum while surfing the net.I like to check out sites regarding Allison transmissions to see what info is being put out.Just wanted to let you know that although I did not look at all your replies to the questions posted on this site I do agree with your response one hundred percent to the posts I did view.I admire your determination on providing answers to owners of Allison transmissions.Any way its good to see someone honest and dedicated enough to provide accurate and honest info for a change.
     
  10. tbfisher

    tbfisher New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    >You are correct that it has to be 140 or higher. Wow you must have a >heck of a coolant system. Does it read sump temp or do they have a >temp sender in a fitting? Freightliner usually puts their senders in >a T fitting in the wrong place. They put on leg that the sender does >not even touch the oil and all you are reading is splash. I would >look under your rig and look at cooler fittings where hoses go into >trans. The correct way would be if the oil shoots straight out of >the trans across right to the sender and the sender not being on leg >of T that is not opposite stream. Have you tried getting a reading

    AllisonMan, THANK YOU for your help! It is a GodSend!
    I have a 99 FreightLiner XC chassis with Cat 3126B and MD 3060 tranny. My temp sensor is located in a T fitting on the outlet of the tranny. It is my suspicion that the sensor(or guage?) reads ~20-30F higher than the actual temp since the automatic routine will not read
    until the temp guage reads ~160-170F i.e. I get OL 70 until the temp guage reads at least ~160-170F. Is it reasonable to assume this?
    Thanks,
    Tom Fisher
    Dallas,Texas
     
  11. Powershift

    Powershift New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    I'm enjoying this site. And like the other transmission man above agree with most what I see here. Some have made this guy out to look bad, but I see things he has said that are also true. Like this one below. Ya all have to remember a HP loss is a loss no matter how big or small the rig. I think the reason this guy is so poo'ed on here is he's talking over everyones heads.
    Icrman replied: "The losses in the larger transmission should not be too much more than on a smaller Automatic transmission. . . " GREAT! That's just what I hoped to hear; however, I'm still confused since two other Allison technicians I've consulted subsequently disagree - and so does AllisonMan
     
  12. hfletcher

    hfletcher New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    ". . . Some have made this guy out to look bad, but I see things he has said that are also true. Like this one below. Ya all have to remember a HP loss is a loss no matter how big or small the rig. . . ."

    "Icrman replied: "The losses in the larger transmission should not be too much more than on a smaller Automatic transmission. . . " "

    Powershift, perhaps you can help me gain a real world interpretation of icrman's words. Specifically, if you agree that (horsepower) losses "should not be too much more . . .", does that mean that if I mate up a 6bt cummins to an allison 600 or 700 series tranny I would get approximately the same output at the wheels as if my engine was joined to the stock Chrysler 47RH tranny? Or would there be a difference (when tc is locked) of say . . 10 horsepower, 30 horsepower, 60 horsepower, 90 horsepower, more?? Such an answer would have meaning to me. I am trying to gain an understanding of how much power will be lost as a result of rotating a significantly larger tranny mass, pumping larger volumes of fluid etc. (As an example: if horsepower at the wheels fell from 400 to 390 I'd have a big smile; if the output fell from 400 to 300 horsepower I would remove the transmission and call it a big mistake - I do not wish to make that mistake.)

    Do you also agree with icrman that automatic transmissions are more efficient than manual transmissions? Thanks!
     
  13. dogvetia

    dogvetia New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hi allison man I just found this thread and am elated you are here to answer questions or steer me in the right direction. I have a 2004 winnebago Journey on a Freightliner with 300HP cummins hooked to a alllison MH2000. The combination is good especially with the 9-10MPG. The concern I have is it occasionally has a very vilolent downshift into first. Only occurs when it is warmed up and then only when I come to a stop a little too quick. It feels like you have been rear=ended when it shifts into first a split second after you have come to a stop. If I shift manually with the buttons ie 5-4-3-2-1-then it is fine. It has done this since new ( now has 10,000 miles) Local allison dealer put it on a computer but I think it primalily did the cummins printed out 10 sheets with no defects. He then disconnected the chasis batteries to erase the transmission memory. None of these things have helped. I can get along with it if I baby it and pre-plan all stops however I am worried about the universal joint etc. I found a detriot allison distributor in omaha that I thought I would take it to when the snow and ice melts but would like your opinion. Thank you in advance for being here. tom
     
  14. polecat

    polecat New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hello Mr. Allison Man....I was just referred to you...hope you can help us...our 2002 Allison equipped DP will "slip" or "hunt back and forth" between gears when the outside temp. is below 30 degrees. It takes abouat 20 miles or so before it starts to do this, and does not clear up or get better. It is hard to keep the coach moving, around 40 mph without pushing the accelerator too hard. We had it to Kansas City Allison facility the winter of 2003 and they could not find anything wrong using their little hand held computer. They did not drive it..had us drive it around noon that day and the temp had warmed up, so it didn't slip. They said it may be Freightliners problem with their wiring harness. I really don't think they entirely believed us, as they kept on saying that they have never had this problem before. Can you give us some ideas to talk to tem about when I take it back in this month (warranty is getting close). Oh yes, it does work perfectly in the spring, summer and fall. Thanks, Larry
     
  15. Poppa

    Poppa Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Allison man some just don't know how to find you

    polecat




    3 Posts
    Posted - Jan 09 2005 : 6:05:57 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hello Mr. Allison Man...I was just referred to you...maybe you can help...our 2002 Allison equipped DP will "slip" or "hunt" between gears when the outside temp. is below 30 degrees...it takes about 20 miles or so before it starts to do this and does not clear up or get better. It is hard to keep the coach moving..usually in the 40 mph range...I just let it hunt without pushing the accelerator too hard and head home. I had it to Kansas City area Allison facility the winter of 2003 and they could not find anything wrong using their little hand held computer. They did not drive it. They said it could be a Freightliner problem with the wiring harness. I really don't think they believed us entirely as they kept saying they have never had one do this before. Can you give me some ideas to take to them about when I take it back in this month(warranty is getting close)? By the way, it does work perfectly and shifts perfectly when the temp. is warm outside. Thanks, Larry
     
  16. Powershift

    Powershift New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    hfletcher
    Thats is what I was saying. If you have that trans in a big truck you don't want that to happen either.
    Thats why you will not see that much more of a loss from the smaller trans to the larger ones. Cause that larger vehicle needs all the extra power output it can get. The only things in these trans that create drag are the clutches, allison goes to great lengths to make sure the clutch packs drag as low as possible. So your bigger trans isn't gona suck hardly anymore power than the smaller trans. Sure larger clutch faces and somemore drag. But not a big amount. Maybe fractions of a percent more.
     
  17. AllisonMan

    AllisonMan New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hi there 1997 Beaver,
    Sorry for the Looooong delay. Your transmission computor says it is a 2400rpm shifter meaning your engine no load should be about 2600rpm.It was set up for a school bus/ motorhome so you are ok there. If you have any more questions I can FAX you a copy of a summery report which has all your transmission ECU information. e-mail me rfranzen@pacificdda.com with a fax number and I will send it. Thanks and have agreat day!
    :)
     
  18. AllisonMan

    AllisonMan New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    Hello brushycreekranch,
    The transmission you have does not have an oil level switch in it nor is a code 0700 valid. My thoughts are that it was a NSBU (nuetral safety back-up switch)which with an Allison switch it is sheilded from the elements. The gm switch has not been updated, therefore it may have failed. By being updated, the switch is the same but allison protects their with covers. Did you go in heavy rain or mudd when this happened?
    There is an update for a problem of the vehicle sitting for a period of time and then not able to go into gear. What happens is the oil in the converter flows out after sitting for a long period of time. The converter reg valve in the front support could be the culprit. Do not worry that you did anything wrong. By shutting off the engine, you re-set the transmission TCM. The reason it fails to 3rd is that is the fault gear it is set to go to for that code.
    Thanks and have a :) great day!
     
  19. AllisonMan

    AllisonMan New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    sepisllib,
    Thank you! I am with you on this. I appreciate your words and agree totally. I would love to see the other guys open their own threads but that is ok. I like everyone. Just because we do not agree I guess I was kinda harsh.
    To everyone out there, I am sorry that I cannot answer questions faster but I try. I do do this on my own time in the evenings and have 2 kids so don't give up, look for answers. I do have an e-mail adress at work that if this is of an urgent matter, please send mean e-mail and I will do my best to get you an answer right away.
    As you can see, I have answered many questions here and I enjoy doing so, So please, continue!
    Everyone, and yes everyone including you icrman and transrand, please, have a Wonderful Day!!!!! :)
     
  20. AllisonMan

    AllisonMan New Member

    Allison Transmission Questions

    hfletcher,
    Oops mistake by sepisllib. See i am not the only one here that does typos LOL. HAVE A GREAT DAY! :)
     

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