Allison Transmission Questions

Discussion in 'General RVing' started by AllisonMan, Apr 5, 2003.

  1. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    Another reason some are programmed as 5 speeds is the vehicle driveline in many vehicles wasn't designed to turn the RPM created by the sixth gear overdrive.
     
  2. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    if you have a 4 spd ecu and you install the trans in another truck what do you need to get the other 2 gears?
     
  3. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    im sorry its is a md 3060 p
     
  4. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    The ECU needs reprogrammed. Go to www.allisontransmission.com, find a distributor or distributor branch near you and contact them.
     
  5. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    thanks

    i have tired today but got told no 2 times

    so im back to square 1 looking for a used 6 spd ecu
     
  6. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    Can you be more specific? An authorized service outlet will not reprogram an ECU to support a vehicle regear? Do they not have the equipment?

    If you are regearing a vehicle using a transmission removed from another vehicle, you still should have an iSCAAN run to determine if the torque converter you have in your transmission is a proper match to the engine/vehicle/axle combination you are putting it in. That requires some contact with the Allison service network. If you do not, you risk assembling a vehicle that will not perform properly. The results of that range from annoying to expensive.

    If you do go the used ECU route, remember the programs for the 3060 are different from the 3560 due to the different gear ratios in each transmission.
     
  7. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    ok

    this is not a regear

    i have a 30,000 lb mtr home and will install the 8.3 and 3060 in the bus

    i wanted the other 2 gears turned on the trans TCM/ECM

    the shop wanted my vin number off the truck that it came out of

    i had that ---then they told me that the truck would go to fast with the other gears --that it was blocked because of it being a fire truck and that was that

    I and installing in a bus with 5.29 gear and need the other overdrives

    the fire truck was 4.88 and didnt need them or they did not want them--they might have thought a drive would run the water pump too fast if they had overdrive(had aux tran in drive line to run pump)

    it has a heavy spec tc as it was gvw at 39000....i just dont know who or how to get the gears turned on in this calibaration

    should i find a mtr home with this calibration and give them that info to get it done?

    thanks so much!!!!!!!!

    also its a wtec 2 ------what is the differance if i change the wiring and ecm to the wtec 3?????

    what does the newer system give me..there is some parts avil as my buddy has this other setup to install in a truck.

    is the iscannsomething that can be done with the powerplant sitting on a trailer?
     
  8. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    Okay.
    1. If the installation of the 8.3 and the MD is going into a vehicle that did not have an MD before, that is what is called a regear.
    2. If the ECU you had came out of a fire truck, DO NOT USE IT without a completely new program being loaded into it for a motorhome. The emergency vehicle calibrations have some of the safety features turned off to enable the vehicle to move in an emergency.
    3. Most of the time, when the overdrives are turned off in the transmission calibration, it is to prevent the driveline from being spun too fast. BAD things happen after a driveline passes its critical speed.
    4. iSCAAN is a computer program Allison authorized service outlets have access to, to properly choose transmission, torque converter, axle, tire size, engine power etc. so the assembled vehicle will perform properly.
    5. The only way to make sure this vehicle will properly perform once you're done, is to do that iSCAAN.
    6. The only way you should even think about turning on those top two gears is if you can install in a properly engineered driveline. That means your shaft lengths, shaft size, angularity, driveline maximum speed (top engine rpm divided by trans top gear ratio) and phasing must be within proper tolerances. Allison also has available what's called installation design calculation software. That software contains a program which will do a driveline analysis. Dana also has a similar program called Dana Expert.
    7. WTEC III also involves changes to the transmission.

    This is a big job, it's not like taking out a 265 small block and putting in a 283. It can be done, just do hour homework before getting too far along.
     
  9. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    ok thanks

    i have over 35yrs of working on trucks cars and everything in between.

    over 20 yr us army and am in now --got called back and will stay this time....

    4-5 yrs ago we changed form wtec2 to wtec 3 on the FMTV series trucks they are the 3070 allison and i am wiring this up like that as far as VIM....

    just dont remember why we changed??????

    i know its a job........but just needed the simple things to do this job......

    this is not going to be that hard......just the wiring is something i have got to get a handle on

    do you have a phone number or email i can get some help with this.....

    you sound like you are on top of this...thanks for your help

    I know about the safety and other things......the drive shaft will be reused and the mounts also

    i cut the frame on the donor after the trans mount.....and will reuse the factory parts.....

    i have a manual comming and this bus is 3 yrs older than a buddys who has the same engine and trans and gears..guess i need to get him to find out the calibration off his ecu to make this 1 just like it to make it factory???????
     
  10. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

     
  11. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    Sounds like we're about the same age. I am very familiar with the FMTV family of vehicles. Sounds like you're experienced. That's good. 3917 RPM is doable if you get the angularity and lengths correct. Remember the driveline modification on the first FMTVs in the early 90s? The troubleshooting manual will get you the electrical schematics. The wtec II to wtec III in the FMTVs was probably due to Allison discontinuing production of WTEC II and switching 100% to WTEC III. They're using Gen IV now. Using the VIM is also good. That makes the installation a lot cleaner. Your buddy's cal might be the one to use, can't say for sure. Even though you're using the engine and trans together from the donor, the torque converter will be correctly matched for the engine, but that doesn't guarantee correct vehicle performance changing from a fire truck to a bus. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I still think the iSCAAN should be run to make sure what you end up with will perform correctly and the trans stays cool. A properly equipped Allison distributor should be able to run that for you for a fee. That's your call. Worst case is you assemble it and have to go back in and change out a stator or torque converter pump. You'll also need the distributor when you recal the ECU. It sounds like a big ambitious undertaking, but as you know, it can be done.
     
  12. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    got it and glad you agree..i worked for s@s doing the driveshaft mods allover the country then~! the drive haft is 17" long..not much to worry about that i will ck the isacnn deal out ......after i get a ecm

    we have listed in the manuels a series 2 to 3 interface wiring ..i might try and do that so can get parts later model...

    was also thinking just wire this up gen series 3 and use a 5 ton ecm and try it......we will get it in------- them go to the dealer for a flash......

    thanks so much//going to get it done soon.
     
  13. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    Good luck. I'm envious of your ambition and having a place to do the swap. Where I live now won't let us put up the kind of building to do that in. I'll fix that one day soon. I see a building, overhead crane and a big lift in my future.......after I get 3 kids through college which starts this fall. Take care of the troops, and the hardware that keeps them safe and helps them complete their missions. We appreciate your service.
     
  14. vtwinwilly

    vtwinwilly New Member

    RE: Allison Transmission Questions

    OK all you Allison guru's I'm stumped...

    I have read most of this incredibly long thread seeking answers, but have come up empty. Hopefully someone can help.

    THE MACHINE:
    1993 HR Navigator
    Cummins C8.3
    Allison MD3060 WTEC II

    THE PROBLEM:
    1) Upon start up, The Speedometer jumps up as high as 80mph... dances around, then eventually settles down. The ECU starts to beep, and the dash light reads "Do Not Shift" and indeed the transmissin will not shift.
    2) Check the fault codes and get 22 16 (indicating a bad speed sensor).
    3) Clear the codes and Transmission operates normally most, but not all of the time. Sometimes it up-shifts sloppily, and down shifts HARD!
    4) The next time I start it, speedo jumps and the "Do Not Shift" light is on again... and the cycle continues.
    5) Sometimes - not always - after the 22 16 code has been cleared, I will get a 13 12 code indicating low voltage to the ECU.

    DIAGNOSTICS I HAVE DONE SO FAR:
    1) Checked the speed sensors. They read approx 275ohms. I read somewhere they were suppose to read 300 so I replaced both. The new ones read 325ohms. This was probably a waste of money... oh well.
    2) Checked the connections going into the sensors.
    3) Check for continuity through the wire from the sensor back to the ECU... all is good.
    4) Checked the resistance of the sensors at the ECU - 342 ohms (so I know the connection is being made).
    5) Grounded the ECU body to a ground lug in the utility bay


    So this brings me to where I am today... still getting the 22 16 code... any ideas... any one... PLEASE!

    Bill B.
     
  15. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    my book shows that this is a output speed sensor reasonableness test

    it shows that you will get a do not shift light
    and a dns lock in current range

    it also tell me that the main transmission connector has water in it or had water in it and has a white film residue left that can be cleaned with contact cleaner and keep it out of the water


    this is the connector that has a 1/4 bolt to dissemble

    i would ck that connector and make sure that your voltage is correct and the fuse is not wet and no white film is showing up where there was water at 1 time and or the wiring where you get main power is good and not corroded!

    hows that for reading a 40$(ebay) Allison sa2470a manual!
     
  16. vtwinwilly

    vtwinwilly New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    I will make the above checks as suggested. Just to be clear ... when you say the "main transmission connector" you're talking about the one on the transmission itself right next to the dipstick input.... yes?

    Where do I get an Allion sa2470a manual (for $40 at that)? What a deal!

    I'll let you know if your suggestions work. I have hope as that particular connector is the only one I haven't checked.

    Thanks

    Bill B.
     
  17. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

  18. dbarton291

    dbarton291 Senior Member

  19. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

    Re: Allison Transmission Questions

    yes sir....but i got another manual also..

    found a man to program ecm

    will let you know outcome..of repower
     
  20. rwoody

    rwoody New Member

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