Arming one's self?

Discussion in 'RV Tips & Tricks' started by onthecoach, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. onthecoach

    onthecoach Senior Member

    Hello All--

    I am sure this is a very touchy subject, but the 'Other Half' and I are having quite a debate on this one.

    He says, that even though he is against guns, since we are travelling and on the road all the time, we should be armed....we need to get one. I am afraid of what might happen if we go this route.

    I am opposed to this idea, and since I have been Rving for over 10 years, I feel strongly that we can be safe as long as we are smart and careful.

    Your thoughts??? :question:
     
  2. ARCHER

    ARCHER Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    There are rules regarding fire arms and RVing. They vary by state. Permits are not necessarily valid for all states. Foreign countries will possibly confiscate them and maybe even put you in jail (Mexico and Canada (Canada won't, but Mexico might). Plain ole common sense is smarter than thinking "I have a gun, so I'm safe". Unless your gonna put it in a holster and look like the Sheriff of Dodge City, you probably won't have time to go and get it to defend yourself anyway, and heaven forbid that you leave it laying around where who knows what might happen (children, older folks (like me), etc.). ;) Think about it long and hard and check the laws about it closely..... :question:
     
  3. mking

    mking New Member

    Arming one's self?

    Everybody has their reasons on carrying a firearm.Me personally its like my insurance policy.When I travel I don't leave home without it.But Archer is right.There is alot of laws out their and it varies from state to state.And I would say that 75% of the campgrounds you stay in prohibits firearms.But you don't have to advertise.Bottom line is if he's against it and has never owned a firearm he should take a safety/shooting/law course before he even thinks about buying.There is alot of liabilty and responsability of owning a firearm.Just some thoughts.
     
  4. team3360

    team3360 New Member

    Arming one's self?

    I have a gun permit for the state of INDIANA,I personally carry my hand gun (A 9 mm, semi-auto) everywhere ,its in my truck, and within reach, I carry it with a clip in it but I do not carry it with a shell in the chamber. simple reason it takes only a second to pull the slide to load and in case my wife (or anybody else) happens to move it theres not a shell in the chamber. also if you are stopped for whatever reason nowdays, its not loaded . there is a excellent guide that is put out by a lawyer . He has reseached all the states and the book has info for all the states. you may obtain a copy from www.gunlawguide.com or call 859-491-6400 m-f9-5 the cost is 12.95. as stated before you dont have to advertise you carry a weapon, its your personel life.I should also add that my wife is not pleased that I carry it but most of time she is unaware that I have it with us. most states I have found will honor other states permits if your state honors theirs.just my point of view team3360
     
  5. turnipbwc

    turnipbwc New Member

    Arming one's self?

    I have been around guns all my life but never carried one on me. Times change and so do people. This day and age I feel it is now time. I signed up to take the Firearm Safty Course and am going to apply for a Concelled Weapon Permit when I finish. My first class is next thursday. The coarse is with the NRA if you are interested NRA instructors are located in virtually every community throughout the United States. For a list of instructors in your area, contact the NRA Training Department at 703-267-1430 or refer to the interactive NRA course locator on the World Wide Web (http://www.nra.org)
    turnip
     
  6. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    Like turnip, I grew up with guns and I really do not remember the first time I ever fired one. I have owned one or more firearms since I was about 10 and have been both a target shooter and a hunter. But I am not a big supporter of carrying of guns strictly for protection. Especially true is the case of such in an RV. Most of the arms that people choose to carry in an RV are such that they will put a bullet not only through the side of the owner's RV, but into mine as well if I happen to be parked next to him. By far the best self defense weapon is a shotgun, for both safety of your neighbors and for effectiveness. Nearly anyone can stop an intruder with a shotgun, while it takes both nerve and marksmanship to do so with a pistol. So if I were to carry a weapon for such use it would be a shotgun.

    And do get the book suggested by team3360. It is the only such book that I have ever come across and it would be well to make it the companion to any weapon in a traveling RV.
     
  7. hertig

    hertig Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    I'm not sure that I would trust any court to consider an automatic with loaded clip in but no shell in chamber as 'unloaded'. Sounds like a gray area which could bite you. I'd have the clip out, as it would only take a fraction longer to shove it in and rack the slide, and no sane person could claim it was loaded then.

    If you have not had significant training AND PRACTICE with your weapon of choice, do NOT rely on it for protection as your chances of doing more harm to yourself and other innocents is much greater than your chance of doing harm to the evil doers. Choose your ammo as if you were going to be using it inside an airplane (shot or pre-fragmented bullets).

    But even if you do fill all the legal and moral requirements to carry a gun, there are additional considerations. As was pointed out, it is possible to drive 5 miles and be under 3 different sets of laws during that time. You need to be legal under the most stringent laws you could encounter on your trip.

    Plus, if you have a gun, everyone who could possibly have access to it must have the same training and practice that you do. If your spouse or kid will not or cannot meet those requirements, then you must prevent their access.

    Hiding it will not cut it from either a legal (those areas which require it to be unloaded and in a locked box) or moral (keeping it out of the 'wrong' hands) standpoint. You will need a heavy duty, secure access box (a safe). And guard the key and/or combination as if your life and financial future depend on it, because they do.
     
  8. team3360

    team3360 New Member

    Arming one's self?

    my comment about no shell in chamber is not meant as a side step to the law or courts systems. I also said SEMI-AUTOMATIC If you are stopped for whatever reason, your first thought is not "I have a gun ", your thought is, was I speeding or similar MOVING/NON MOVING violation. I don't offer information to the officer that I have a gun because that opens up another box of worms. I simple meant and should have said, that if the stop leads to you leaving your vehicle and a search is started,(at which time I advice there is a gun in my vehicle and the location ),then, when an officer locates my gun, it goes a long way with them as no shell is in the chamber.This is my opinion, after talking to most of the officers at our local police department, in which my brother is a seargent with 14 years on the force. the next thing I should have said,and didn't, is always have a lock box to secure the weapon when you are parked. I have a lock box hidden and secured in my RV . You are right thats it only takes a second to push the clip in , and I have since purchased a holster that has a clip pocket attached to the holster. thank you for you views on that TEAM3360
     
  9. hertig

    hertig Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    sorry, 'automatic' is really 'semi-automatic' but everyone I know leaves off the 'semi-'

    You are probably right. Unfortunately for me, I grew up in Illinois which is pretty nasty about things like this. In order to be legal, I used to have had it 'unloaded' and 'inaccessable'. I suspect that most Illinois law officers would have considered it to be 'loaded' if it had a clip with shells in the gun, even without one in the chamber. Or perhaps they would behave more reasonably. Don't know and wouldn't want to put it to the test...
     
  10. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    The other issue that one should give serious thought to, before you carry a gun of any type for protection is, would you be willing to kill another human being, even for safety reasons? It just isn't as easy to kill a person and it might seem when the subject comes up. And to carry a gun if you are not willing to kill someone, is inviting the case where some invader takes it from you and uses it aginst you. So make that decision a part of the total question.
     
  11. team3360

    team3360 New Member

    Arming one's self?

    The question is ARE YOU WILLING TO LET SOMEONE OR SOMETHING HARM YOUR LOVED ONE, be it your wife, child, grandchild, whom ever, !!! When I think about this I have no second thoughts . I also do alot of wilderness backpacking/camping with my kids and have had several visits from bears ,bobcats, and even had a problem with a cougar in new mexico once, but never had to fire my weapon,thank God , but if someone had been in harms way, (human or animal), then I would have made the other decision, period. I also grew up in the north (northern Indiana, 40 miles east of chicago ,15 miles east of Gary,Indiana,claimed murder capital of the U.S.A. a few years back) and I still live here .I don't look at it as unfortunate, this is OUR HOME. TEAM3360
     
  12. turnipbwc

    turnipbwc New Member

    Arming one's self?

    team3360,
    I agree with you. Things sure have changed in this world. I am a retired farmer/school bus driver and never had to lock you doors at night. Now I find myself checking the doors several times during the night just to make sure they are locked. I grew up with guns because back then we hunted to eat. Never needed any license to hunt on your own property either.
    The main reason I am going for my concelled weapon permit is because it I ever do need to use a gun to protect myself or my family either on my property or off, I will be legal.
    Like Indiana, West Virginia can be "wild" to. Three years ago there was a robbery/triple murder in a home not far from me and it happened at night.
    turnip
     
  13. hertig

    hertig Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    I don't know anything unfortunate about Indiana; last time I checked they had pretty good gun laws. Illinois has fairly bad gun laws. And snow. And moskitoes. A trifecta of unfortunate. :)

    If someone attacks me or my loved ones, I will make every effort to stop them. If they should die from that stopping it would be unfortunate, but they did assume that risk when they decided to attack me.
     
  14. pldoolittle

    pldoolittle New Member

    Arming one's self?

    Of course I would be willing to defend my family. And I carry. But, Kirk is right. Having been in the unfortunate situation to need my firearm twice (no shots fired) I can tell you very honestly that dropping the hammer on a paper target is very different than doing so on a human that is looking you in the eyes. It is a very frightening situation, with huge ramifications, decisions must be made in split seconds and often with insufficient data to make an intelligent decision.

    Shooter training sounds ridiculous as it's easy to shoot a gun. But shooter training is not about learning how to pull the trigger. It's about making the process automatic. It's about practice. It's about having been there many, many times BEFORE you are faced with it for real. That way, if you are faced with the situation you stand a fighting chance of coming out alive.

    Philip
    PowerHouse Pressure Washing
    Fayetteville, Ga.
     
  15. riggarob

    riggarob New Member

    Arming one's self?

    Better to be judged by your peers of twelve, then to be carried by your friends of six.
     
  16. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs New Member

    Arming one's self?

    The contributors are largely,(on in my experience)correct. Shooting a person would not differ greatly from shooting target or wild game, until the lawyers arrange involvement, then your choice of type of projectiles being used comes into focus. This would go like, "you shot this young man with man-killing HOLLOW POINTED ammunition, would you state to the court WHY you expressly chose this type of ammunition to kill this young man just entering life because he was trying to support his family by taking your laptop and because of his unfortunate choice you have killed him by using horrible rending and explosive projectiles...," et al and then you must defend against guarding your castle and loved ones AND your mean and killing intention(justified or not, not good at that juncture). I used and use fmj 9mm. The argument re: single projectile vs shotshells is kinda valid, but the shotgun loads are 99.5% fatal in ALL recorded instances and is supported by EMTs and ER staff locally(my daughter is an ER nurse). But, those loads go through walls as well and spread as they go(also long and cumbersome) starting at your bore size and spreading to abt 1.5' in 30'. At the bore discharge they penetrate walls/2X4's thin RV metal/fibreglas siding really well and you can try at your local salvage yd on car doors&pcs of demolished dwellings w/heavier shot diameters, if they allow such in your locale :eek: ... I'd urge yas to consider your defense well in advance of having to actually define it in a courtroom under examination by folk who do not agree can and can put a hurt :dead: on your bank accounts for liability, neglect, poor planning and most would be pressed to conjure up all of them. I keep 911 on my speed dial. If a person enters against your will and repeated demands to stop entry, you'll likely still defend on civil grounds, check yur ins. coverage. My wife and I stay in all kinds of parking areas along hwy, if they appear a mite disreputable(some "wally-worlds")we drive on, we try to plan on nite spots ahead a bit before arrival, but have had blow outs and mechanical unplanned mandatory stops in unsavory locations and usually my pup Fluffy (185# of also mil. retiree)makes our phone booth on wheels sound like a poor choice, and my dear wife is a loud nco wife type. Those folk wanting another's belongings don't deal w/alot of unwanted noise well and the neighbors start noticing and calling the constabulary. Part of my male relatives are/were L.E. types, and they agreed it was exceeding difficult to charge anybody when the perp had been found deceased INSIDE the dwelling...Consider your options, prior and get acquianted w/laws thru "concealedcarry.com" and other sites and be certain of your ground. NEVER speak to police investigating w/other than your name and address, contact a lawyer asap!if complications seem to be developing toward chained bracelets. Practice marksmanship!! Some retired cops I've met, stay ONLY in campgrounds w/ranges available, due to low crime rates. If you do stay on mil.facilities you'll be required to surrender your arms prior entry(and your right to refuse search) we sometimes do to vist w/other retred and catchup on gossip and commiserate on topics. Be aware and have fun, Two Dogs :cool: :blush:
     
  17. dawgon

    dawgon New Member

    Arming one's self?

    It's pretty basic really...you can be tried by twelve or carried by six. Your choice!
     
  18. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    Have you ever known well, and individual who has killed another person, other than in military combat? I do although it was not me. I can assure you that when the TV shows the law enforcement officers needing counseling after such a killing, it is correct. And they have far more training than do any of us. I'm not saying that you won't do it, nor do I doubt that there are circumstances when I would. But, after long conversations with a couple of officers who have had the experience, I still can't help sometimes wonder. If I suddenly came upon a situation where my wife was under attack, no question! I would pull that trigger. But what about when the guy is just inside of the door? Perhaps he only wants your wallet? I just think that those who say that it is simple fail to understand what is involved. As for me, if I were ever on the jury for someone who killed in that situation, the most a prosecutor would get is a hung jury as I would never vote to convict. But that was not my question. I am clearly on the side of those who do use a weapon, as long as it does not endanger the rest of us. But I think that far too many think that it would be an easy thing to do.
     
  19. onthecoach

    onthecoach Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    Thank you all for your respsonses. Clearly this is an issue that requires a tremendous amount of homework and soul-searching. I am still of the mind that a gun is not necessary....but my other half considers it 'insurance.'

    We have a lot of thinking to do, and all of your comments (pro and con) have been most helpful!! Thank you!!!
     
  20. s.harrington

    s.harrington Senior Member

    Arming one's self?

    There is a case going through the courts at the present time about permits and licenses to carry. So far every court has ruled in favor of the right to carry in any state as long as you have a valid permit or license. Under the "Fair faith and credit" clause of the US constitution documents issued in one state must be honored by all states. It hasn't gone to the Supreme court yet but it is supposed to be heard soon. This is the same thing that makes your drivers license good in all states so it has a chance of winning.
     

Share This Page