Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

Discussion in 'General RVing' started by alapataws, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Tell me...who asked for this propoasal to decrease this benefit?

    Was in Democrats or Republicans or the Forest Service?
     
  2. utmtman

    utmtman Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Well as a disabled elderly veteran, on a fixed income will suffer from any rise in price. And I know many others that will too. I noticed that some campgrounds are charging the same as a cheap rv park with full hookups and all they offer is a place to park, access to water, and a out house. I will enjoy my camping but if the prices go up or if they take away the discount I will have to give up that enjoyment. I used to camp at least a week or two of every month from May to August. Now I am lucky to do a couple of weeks during that same time frame. Income is the same reason we are suffering this winter in a snow enclosed are. Dang I just cant keep paying more out.

    I have worked for several national parks since I started fulltiming and they all said the same thing, that they are barely surviving because of lack of funds to pay employees and repairs. They say if it were not for us volunteers they would have to close the parks. And companies like Xanterra are trying to take the parks over. And if they do it the price will go thru the roof. Look at Yellowstone National Park Xanterra all but runs that park.

    I too remember the dirt logging roads for camping and fishing and I also remember the two campers I put holes in driving down these road and running into tree limps hanging over them. Those were the days. They are now all two lane asphalt roads and instead of the dedicated campers they now have all the trash and garbage people at the camps. we all know these people the types who drink and raise hell and leave garbage and campfires burning, race boats on the lakes and laugh at causing havoc for the dedicated campers and outdoor types.

    The wife just got her retirement paperwork for 2010 with her Jan check and her federal taxes are going up by 28 dollars a month and I am sure that is to try and pay for all that money BO is giving away all the time. So for all you working types here it comes the payback for all the money spent to get us out of a whole last year. And I am sure the states taxes have gone up as well to pay back the money they received as well.

    So in ending the elderly, veterans, and disabled are to get the shaft first and it hurts.
     
  3. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Answer to above question...

    Okay, okay, okay…

    You see everyone is missing the point here. Tex you are right on what you say; mostly.

    Progressives: The Progressive Era in the United States was a period of reform which lasted from the 1880s to the 1920s in response to industrialization. Progressives advocated a wide range of economic, political, social, and moral reforms.
    Purification of politics was a main Progressive goal, with many Progressives trying to expose and undercut political machines and bosses. In particular, their attempts to exclude illiterates, blacks, (which are funny to me because there are black progressives today) and others from voting, and to reduce immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe through devices such as a literacy test. Many supported prohibition in order to destroy the political power based in saloons. At the same time, woman suffrage was promoted to bring a "purer" female vote into the arena. Hmmm that’s weird, isn’t Hillary Clinton a Progressive too? Yes she is…
    Disturbed by the decadence of the Gilded Age, the progressives were committed to changing and reforming the country. Significant changes enacted at the national levels included the income tax with the Sixteenth Amendment, direct election of Senators with the Seventeenth Amendment, Prohibition with the Eighteenth Amendment, and women's suffrage through the Nineteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
    The Progressives tried to permanently fix their reforms into law by constitutional amendments, included Prohibition with the 18th Amendment and women's suffrage by the 19th amendment, both in 1920 as well as the federal income tax with the 16th amendment and direct election of senators with the 17th amendment. After Progressivism collapsed, the 18th amendment was repealed (in 1933).
    Tex is right; this movement does go back to Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt. Obama, Clinton, Bush and McCain are all progressives. It is basically a spread the wealth theory of practice. They want to infiltrate the government system in order to collapse it from within thus causing the entire system to be re-built from their point of view.
    All I know is that my original post is not about progressives, bailouts, tarp, or spending…it’s about lobbyist. You see Yellowstone National Park, established by the U.S. Congress and signed into law by President Ulysses S. Grant on March 1, 1872 was Americas first National Park and public land. PUBLIC LAND! C Nash is right, if we did not have some public land, Yellowstone would be a housing development you are I could not afford to enjoy. Now when I say lobbyist, I mean the concessionaires that are managing some, not all, of our public land campgrounds. To answer my question above it’s not Democrats or Republicans, or even the Forest Service that has proposed this benefit reduction, IT IS THE CONCESSIONAIRES who proposed it. This proposal has nothing to do with progressives…
     
  4. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    If anyone wants to know more about this whole progressive thing I suggest watching Glen Beck, but also going to the library and learning it for yourselves. Does anyone plan on going to Glen Beck's 08/28/2010 Restoring Honor Rally at the steps of the Lincoln Memorial? My wife and I will be there...
     
  5. LEN

    LEN Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    The point is, It is not a benefit decrease it is a call for increase to pay for the services. We have grown up in an age that every one is owed__________again fill in the blank. Well the blank has hit the bottom of the well and the well is all but dry. If WE want the services WE must pay for the services. And in this case the service is costing more or there will be no more service it's that simple. OH for the last week I've been paying $45 a night and next week I will be on BLM at $0 a night(with no services). Service costs--MMMMMMMMMM maybe I can get the guy in the provost next to me to pick up mine too.

    LEN
     
  6. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    I have to say one last thing on this topic...

    I did not post this to create a political forum. I posted it because this is a forum about RVing and camping and directly relates to that. There are plenty of political forums out there to talk politics if you want to do so. I just thought I would bring this to the peoples attention who will be affected by this proposal, that's all.

    Have a great day and God Bless,
    Jason K.
     
  7. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Nothing wrong with expressing all views and opinions in general forum IMO Jason. All we are discussing affects our rving. Still one of the great things about our country. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Thanks for posting the article.
     
  8. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    As long as we're civil to each other ... everything we do now is "political." We have one mission ... kick the bums out that won't get us out of this mess, and don't start whining when OUR ox is gored.

    This is about what you originally posted. We're all sitting close to home, because the costs keep going up. Wait until hyperinflation sets in this year or next. The only camping you'll be doing is in your driveway.
     
  9. WILLY3328

    WILLY3328 New Member

    RE: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    At the risk of being flamed, I'll try to explain why I disagree with this proposed change (eliminating the 50% camping discount for pass holders). As I explained to the Forest Service when I submitted my comments to the proposed change: These are Public Lands, operated by private concessionaires, for profit. The consessionaires are the ones who have lobbied the Forest Service for the change because they are not sucking enough money out of the land that WE ALL OWN!. Here is a copy of the comments I submitted. I hope it clarifies the issue a little better:

    "Lots of technical information in this notice to pour over however, the bottom line for me is that eliminating the 50% discount would elevate the Forest Service campground fees to that of commercial campgrounds and would therefore, be of little interest to me. "Public" owned lands should not cost the "public" anywhere near the same as private campgrounds. Private campgrounds must purchase the land, pay real estate and sales/use taxes, building, electrical & plumbing permit fees which are not applicable to public lands and generally, they provide more amenities than public lands. Therefore, the camping fees on public owned lands should be nowhere near the same as private campgrounds. If the concessioners aren't happy about the discount, perhaps they should find another line of work".

    P.S. Tex, I agree 100% with your take on the economy and the horrible situation this administration has put us in but this issue is not about the government supporting anyone, it's simply the private, "for profit" consessionaires trying to get more money in THEIR pockets, but removing it from OUR pockets.

    Nuf Said.
     
  10. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    I kind of doubt that you'll be "flamed" here. We respect your opinion.

    I keep making the same comment over and over, because it seems that someone else can't quite get beyond what's in front of them.

    THERE IS NO MORE MONEY.

    This doesn't have anything to do with the greedy "for profit" "private concessionaires" "sucking ... money" out of our pockets. Look beyond that.

    As business people, they are looking to a time when they won't have enough revenue to make it worthwhile to be there. They are trying to get ahead of the cycle, so they can keep people employed and bring home the bacon.

    What are they seeing that you aren't?

    It's happening in boardrooms all over the country; day after day. People like you and me that are forced to make plans for the future, because that is their job. And what are they seeing that makes them planning to reduce expenses, raise prices and (hopefully) some profit?

    HYPERINFLATION - because all the money we see will be next to worthless. The Federal Reserve (not the government) will be printing more, and every time they print a dollar, every dollar out there will be worth only 50 cents.

    THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. Everything we produce is used to pay the interest on the loans we have taken out.

    That means that we will eventually see very high interest rates on loans for RVs, because any institution that is loaning money is competing in a global market for the money they have to loan. All the money is used to pay towards our debt, so it becomes less available. What happens when something becomes harder to get? It costs more to get it. The price goes up. Big time.
     
  11. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Well it's February 1st. Today is the last day to comment on this topic at, http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a60f36

    I am waiting on a response from both my (D) & (R) Senators (FL), and my local Congressman C.W. Bill Young. I will keep everyone posted as to the outcome of this legislation. Thank you all for you interest in this topic.

    J.K.
     
  12. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

  13. Paul235

    Paul235 New Member

    RE: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%



    Even if we don't agree with any of the political wars that have been going on for many years, the nation has got to realize that redistribution of wealth doesn't last forever. If we can't demand reasonable actions of the folks we send to public office, then it all comes to an end. Any argument for the continued financial support of our favorite needy cause or deserving class of people has just run into a brick wall. Only the totally blind or fantasy world non thinkers couldn't see this coming.My family is directly affected by this also as I have a 40 year daughter at home in a wheelchair since 19. Not an easy thing to deal but that's life and I wouldn't trade her for anything. I can only agree with Tex's honest, critical analysis of the present situation:



    THERE IS NO MORE MONEY




    Sad but true.
     
  14. superslif

    superslif New Member

    RE: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    All I know is camping fees in the "state parks" here in Ohio have increased 300 - 400% over the last 15 - 20 years. Here in Ohio state funding has decreased every year. State employees working in the parks was at 2000+, 15 years ago. Now down to the 500 - 700 range. My luck, by the time I'm old enough to use Ohio's senior discount for 50% off during the weekday nights, it will be gone too. Yes, there are seniors that are very well off RVing in multi 100K coaches, then there are others trying to stretch their retirement $$$.
     
  15. USMC

    USMC Member

    RE: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Well I guess I will get off the subject some but as we travel I have had occasions where people have invited us to park our RV at there home for the night at no cost, it seems to me that there is an easier and cheaper way to travel in an RV, with the price of camp sites now days it seems like it would almost be cheaper to run ones generator and use his solar power for electric and access a dump station for free when needed.

    There are many places that will let you park behind there place of business for the night or in a church parking lot, many places if you just need electric to keep your batteries charged will let you do that at no charge, one just has to pick out a place and ask.

    Our forefathers traveled across this country in covered wagons and stopped and made camp where ever they wanted and where they found a place that looked good to them, maybe we should start thinking more about by passing the RV parks and find our own place to camp where we choose, and get off the grid some and do our own thing. :)

    I suspect that if a camp site cost you $18.00 a night a person might let you camp beside his barn for $8.00 a night if you ask them.
     
  16. alapataws

    alapataws New Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    I agree USMC. I wonder how soon it will be before we make the checks payable to China? In a way, I guess we already do...

    J.K.
    Lord, please save the Republic.
     
  17. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

  18. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Might want to also ck out this site. Doesen't hurt to read and study both sides http://factcheck.org/
     
  19. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%



    You might think that with a name like "FactCheck", one could trust the "facts" they present. However, keep in mind where it all comes from. "FactCheck" is part of "The Annenburg Public Policy Center" run by the University of Pennsylvania. Here's a little bit from an article that tells part of the story:

    ... When I read "Annenberg Public Policy Center", a bell went off in my head. While the AP refers to the organization as "nonpartisan" - which might be true - I think they may still have a place in their hearts for the president, who used to Chair the Chicago Annenberg Challenge for four years...working closely with William Ayers. ... The significance is two-fold, for it details both the outright lies and secrecy of the new president and his allies, and reveals the only executive experience Obama has ever had.... Sanity Sentinel

    There's a "fact" that they sort of forget to reveal. They aren't exactly "unbiased", and how could they be?
     
  20. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    Re: Forest Service to cut Access Pass benefit from 50% down to 10%

    Thats what I am talking about. Who can you believe anymore? Guess you can read the extreme left and right and hopeful come up with an answer somewhere in the middle of the road. Kind of like the FR problems here on the forum, all we hear are the bad ones. Are there good FR products out there? Yes, but hearing of these problems make us aware that there may be fire where there's smoke. Would I buy one? Probabaly not but I would still look at them. Guess I consider my glass half full or gas tank half full.
     

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