Hydogen Fuel Revisited

Discussion in 'RV Tips & Tricks' started by sweetcraft, Mar 31, 2008.

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  1. sweetcraft

    sweetcraft New Member

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/how-a-hydrogen-boosted-gasoline-engine-works.htm

    Thought I would again find out if anyone else has explored the Booster for fuel saving. The auto industry is trying to gear up with this idea as in the site above. I am going ahead and building a unit with materials in my shop and installing it on my Ford 460 engine. If the unit does give a 20 percent+ saving I won't have to wait for someone to take care of my fuel. Mythbusters did try one but it failed as they tried to run it at 100 percent which was not the design; the engine did run on 100 percent Hydogen from a compressed bottle of Hydrogen.
     
  2. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Well, Jim. You go ahead and keep compressed hydrogen around. I think your insurance company and your neighbor's insurance companies would like to know, also.
     
  3. utmtman

    utmtman Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    LOL Tex. I still think that running on air and only air is the only way to go.
    Saw that Mythbusters show too sweetcraft and you saw what happened when that full ignited on him. He was lucky thats all I got to say. Good luck on your adventures in hydrogen.
    I like the part in Mythbusters when they ran just plain fry oil in that mercedes and only lost two mpg against diesel.
     
  4. sweetcraft

    sweetcraft New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Read again as there isn't any compressed hydrogen. It's worth a try so I am putting one together with safety fuses and a switch. An ammeter is going into the circuit to check and see if it does indeed use only 75 watts. The Myythbusters did not use the booster unit as a booster but tried to run the engine on it only, never will work. Used as designed as a booster it might improve the mileage, I hope to find out. Stand back.
     
  5. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    thank you i will...if you bother to read on the subject (HYDROGEN ON DEMAND)..then you might learn a thing or two about what this technology is all about..i'd like to hear from sweetcraft as it seems he is interested in the very same technology that i am using on my vehicle.
     
  6. Grandview Trailer Sa

    Grandview Trailer Sa Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Did the spam page about water in fuel get deleted? I cant seem to find it. If so, glad the moderators are doing their jobs.
     
  7. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    RE: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Hydrogen-Boosted Gasoline Engine Overview
    Faced with the ever-increasing cost of gasoline, automakers worldwide are working overtime to cost-effectively improve vehicle fuel economy while still meeting today's strict emissions requirements. One promising way to boost fuel economy is to add hydrogen to the fuel/air mixture in a conventional gasoline engine. It's called a hydrogen-boosted gas engine. However, since hydrogen isn't readily available at your local filling station, selling a hydrogen-boosted gas engine hasn't been on any automakers' short list. Until now, that is.

    BMW's recent concept car, the
    hydrogen-powered 7-Series, is still
    a long way from arriving at dealerships.

    In this article, we'll explain a new technology that utilizes a fast-response on-board reformer to generate a small amount of hydrogen from gasoline. This hydrogen is added to the engine's normal air/fuel mixture. Engines designed to run on a mix of hydrogen/gasoline can see a fuel-economy gain of 20 to 30 percent with no requirement for control of harmful NOx emissions, oxides of nitrogen. On the next two pages, we'll tell you how this new fuel-saving engine works and why it looks like it has the potential to become a viable, fuel-saving technology. We'll address the following issues regarding this new technology:

    A small amount of hydrogen made on-board by the reformer is added to the normal intake air and gasoline mixture in the vehicle's engine. This greatly improves overall combustion quality by allowing nearly twice as much air for a given amount of fuel introduced into the combustion chamber. This is more energy efficient because it saves energy by reducing the amount of engine pumping needed. Learn what the experts are saying about this new technology

    The race is on for the fuel-economy leadership position. Where will the hydrogen-boosted gas engine fit in with other fuel-saving technologies like hybrid cars, E85 ethanol-powered vehicles, and new clean diesel-powered cars. How much gas does it save compared to other alternative fuel-powered vehicles? Will consumers begin seeing this type of engine in cars in the near future?

    Hydrogen-boosted gasoline engine technology is new and just now beginning to emerge from the laboratory. It offers the prospect of an economic way to produce a small amount of hydrogen from gasoline with an on-board system designed to do so. Invented by scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and being perfected by auto industry supplier ArvinMeritor in cooperation with the German automotive engineering firm IAV, this system may provide a cost-effective alternative to fuel-cell technology and traditional gasoline- and diesel-combustion engines. It's possible that hydrogen-boosted engines could bridge the gap between today's gasoline-powered vehicles and the fuel-cell vehicles of the future.

    While fuel-cell vehicles may hold long-term promise, the reality is that they are years away from mass production. Critics cite the high cost of fuel-cell stacks, hydrogen fuel mass-production issues, and general fueling problems as key stumbling blocks. Some believe it may be decades before fuel-cell vehicles become widely available. European automakers have already turned to more expensive diesels but their cost and related complexity is increasing with stiff new emissions requirements for control of particulate matter and NOx emissions.

    U.S. carmakers faced with the same concern about diesels are reluctant to commit to the huge expense required by the changeover from gasoline to higher-cost diesel. For example, consumers currently have to pay about a $3000 premium for a diesel-powered light truck vs. a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle. This will increase in the future to compensate for the rising costs associated with making sure diesel vehicles meet forthcoming emissions regulations. The EPA has recently granted diesel vehicles a break by easing near term NOx requirements, but only through 2009 and the high-mileage emissions requirement has been tightened as a trade-off.

    According to experts at ArvinMeritor, and executive engineers Rudy Smaling and Jens Beister at IAV, the facts about a hydrogen-boosted gasoline engine and its advantages are clear.

    A small amount of hydrogen made on-board by the reformer is added to the normal intake air and gasoline mixture. This greatly improves overall combustion quality by allowing nearly twice as much air for a given amount of fuel introduced into the combustion chamber. This is more energy efficient because it saves energy by reducing the amount of engine pumping needed.

    Fuel efficiency is also gained through the use of higher engine compression ratios made possible by the hydrogen-rich charge characteristics. A hydrogen-boosted fuel system also saves energy because of the remarkably low amount of electrical energy needed to power the reformer. According to the developers, it needs less than 75 watts, which is less than the electric needs of one standard headlight.

    An industry-accepted virtual vehicle analysis based on engine test data indicated the potential for a 20 percent to 30 percent improvement in fuel economy for a turbocharged downsized version of the hydrogen-boosted engine when compared with conventional gasoline engines.

    Next, we'll explain what's in store for this technology and where consumers will begin to see it.

    The Future of Hydrogen-Boosted Gas Engines
    Hydrogen-boosted gasoline engines have the potential to considerably improve fuel economy. A major cost and environmental advantage of the hydrogen-boosted lean system engine are low amounts of NOx emissions gasses, hence, complete elimination of the need for external NOx emissions control. Currently, NOx emissions control is a major cost problem for diesels which use expensive traps to meet emissions standards. Diesel particulate emissions must also be collected by a filter that must be periodically regenerated.

    Hydrogen-boosted gasoline engines require neither NOx or particulate control filters and require only a low cost oxidation catalyst to control small amounts of exhaust (unburned hydrocarbons) formed mostly during engine start-up and early warm up. Additional cuts in emissions control requirements stem from the engine's ability to use only the clean hydrogen enriched charge during the cold start phase when 90% of emissions are generated in the emissions test.

    The hydrogen-boost system is effectively a bolt-on technology that can be added to an existing vehicle's engine compartment. According to the developers, the cost of the system is less than half of the added cost for diesels. U.S. auto industry production costs for tooling diesels to replace gasoline engines are enormous and would be difficult for U.S. makers currently struggling with financial difficulties.

    A prototype hydrogen-boosted engine is now being installed in a V6-equipped SUV that has sufficient free space for the reformer and its related system. The start of long-term road testing for performance, reliability, and durability information is planned for later this year with the first production application marketing expected for 2010.

    Performance data generated during the early phase of testing is certain to be watched intensely by virtually everyone concerned with automotive and energy environmental matters in part because the system is associated with the buzzword "hydrogen."

    High on the list of interested parties are makers of the large SUVs and vans for which government regulators are seeking 10 percent higher average miles per gallon vs. the 2007 level of 22.2 mpg. The new level of 24.1 mpg is to be adhered to by 2011.

    Four-cylinder vehicles will likely also be prime candidates for the technology as high gasoline prices continue to generate competition among the high fuel economy models seeking mpg leadership. A contributing factor in the compact car market may be a concern with hybrid vehicle lifetime cost due to system complexity and battery replacement, reported in some cases to be as high as $5000. This is just now beginning to be reflected in low resale values as early production hybrids reach high mileage.

    The hydrogen-boosted engine will not be alone, however, in the race for fuel economy leadership position. Advanced turbocharged downsized direct injected variable valve engines, common-rail diesel engines, hybrids, and flex-fuel vehicles are all vying for the automaker's attention in the fuel-economy race.

    None of these technologies can boast all of the advantages of the hydrogen-boosted engine, namely dramatically increased fuel economy, minimal emissions control, and overall cost-efficiency. In the end, it will take a combination of many technologies to address this nation's thirst for driving freedom, but it's likely that we'll hear a lot more about the hydrogen-boosted engine in the future.
     
  8. Grandview Trailer Sa

    Grandview Trailer Sa Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Hey pal,
    I got your Private Message. You go right ahead and tell the moderators about my business. You see, the HUGE difference it that I PAY FOR MY ADVERTISING. I give out free advise here in the FREE forum. You are trying to conduct your business without any payout on your part. To be honest, if I tried to stay in business from what I get from this forum, I would have been gone a LONG time ago.
    I had nothing to do with Cindy deleting the other posting, but I am glad she did. I expect this to be gone soon.
     
  9. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Thanks to whoever is responsible for the random quote of the day.....
     
  10. Grandview Trailer Sa

    Grandview Trailer Sa Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Just so you know, Random Quote is just that, RANDOM QUOTE. There is a list, I will let you find it, and each time you come to the forum you get a RANDOM QUOTE. If it applied to you, good.
     
  11. Shadow

    Shadow Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Hey Ken and Tex. Remember the ignore button. Makes his post irrelevant quick !!! :dead:
     
  12. Grandview Trailer Sa

    Grandview Trailer Sa Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    I know, having too much fun :laugh: :laugh: :evil:
     
  13. Grandview Trailer Sa

    Grandview Trailer Sa Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited



    You really don't understand how this thing works. On the contact page, information is what you put there. Someone has to click on your contact page to see it.

    I have a lot of my inventory listed on this forum and I pay for that each month. You will have to go through proper channels to find out the fees. I do not conduct business on these pages and I will not quote RVUSA's rates.

    When someone contacts me about a trailer, we talk off the forum, but over the years, I have given and gotten lots of free advise.
     
  14. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Ken
    Thank you very much for the constructive input..My sincerest apologies to all for the rule infractions. I will hopefully get things set up so that no one is offended about my intrest in fuel savings and the emerging technologies related to just that. I welcome any advice that keeps all forum users happy with my postings.

    WJ Shults
     
  15. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    So it's just that easy? Crap all over the place and fix it with a "I'm sorry!"

    I for one, wouldn't buy a dollar from you.
     
  16. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    Well clod, take it or leave it, you stated your piece earlier, people like you think you are entitled to use up all the resources that are available to you, without any thought of the consequences to the enviornment, or what future generations are left to deal with. Do you have any kids or grandchildren?
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    well i gotta put my 2 cents in ,, can this guy fix rv's ,, can he install cabinets ,, also ,, can he explain to me how a rv fridge works ,, untill then i don't like all this spam stuff ,,, when he can explain to me how to repair a broken pex fitting to a tank pump ,, then i will listen ,, the hydrogen does nothing for my DP ,, hell it will run on corn starch if i chose ,,, now that i have said that ,, does the milageseeker have a rv question ,, somehwhere in the future :question: :question: :question: :question: :evil: :evil: :evil: :eek: :eek:
     
  18. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    71 airstream excella
     
  19. mileage seeker

    mileage seeker New Member

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    full timer by the way
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Hydogen Fuel Revisited

    And :question: :question: :question: ,, do u do u'r own repairs ??? .. when was the last time u installed an awning or an a/c unit ,, hell when was the last time u rewired front to back an rv 120 and 12 volt ,, bty what type of genset do u have ????
     
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