:( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

Discussion in 'Class C Motorhomes' started by smilinjohn, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    Want to get a generator or inverter type so as to run the Air Conditioner and refrigerator, when wife and I go to horse shows where there is no electrical hookup for TT. I obtained a Wattage Worksheet (Steele Generator Products) from our local farm and fleet store. Formula seems to read:

    Sum of Running (Rated) Watts + the highest value of the Additional Starting (Surge) Watts = necessary Total Running Watts


    4.6 cu ft Refrig..........1.5A.................180 Rated Watts.......................566 (estimated) Surge Watts
    5K BTU Air Cond.....5.2A.................515 Rated Watts....................1,545 (estimated) Surge Watts

    THUS: 695W + 1545W = 2,240W Total Running (Rated) Watts

    THUS: Inverter / Generator must produce at least 2,240 Running (Rated) Watts, to eliminate potential Air Conditioner burnout.......please confirm. Thus far, is my logic correct? Comments and other help would be much appreciated.

    :) John
     
  2. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Yes you are on the right path. Just to be sure I would contact Ken at Grandview Trailer Sales. Ken is a member of this site and very helpful. E-Mail: Kenneth@grandviewtrailersales.com


    :8ball:
     
  3. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Thanks, Steve. Yet, I have no idea how my original post got into "Class C Motorhomes". How might I transfer this to "General RVing", where I intended it to be?

    :( John
     
  4. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Sorry you can't. Your posting will be seen. The good people of this site check each title but it has just been quiet. To better answer you question about your watts. You should be happy with a 3kw generator if you are only using one AC. This will give you a little more room to add a coffee pot. Any smaller and you could have some problems. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out and what kind of generator you end up with.


    :8ball:
     
  5. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Again, thank you, Steve.

    I'm much attracted to the 2,000W (Rated) / 2,100W (Surge) Northshore Power Systems (Honeywell) HW2000i Inverter.

    Reasoning on this puzzle further, perhaps I would only need 180W (refer) + 1545W (A.C. Surge) = 1,725W (Total running Watts). To my way of reasoning, the 5K Btu A.C. uses 1,545W (Surge) starting up, then once the initial surge is over with, drops back to 515W (rated), thus 180W + 1545W = 1,725W. I know that I would be risking Murphy's Law where both devices might surge at the same time.....566W Surge + 1,545W Surge = 2,111W Total Surge.

    How should I determine my inverter requirements for running the A.C alone, without any other electrical device other than the 12V lights, where the A.C. is 515W (Rated) / 1545W (Surge)??

    :) John
     
  6. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    I am not too comfortable here giving any advice, to be honest. However, you do not want to take any chances with your AC. Low voltage will damage your motor. Not only on the AC but the Refer also. I can see your thinking. Turn on one, wait, turn on another, wait, and so on. That would be ok if the refer and AC did not cycle on and off but they do. Have you tried to contact Ken? You are probably thinking he is a salesman and will just try to sell you something but that is not the case. Ken has advised me, and has never received nothing more then a warm "thank you". JMHO :)


    :8ball:
     
  7. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    I just read the reviews on amazon about the Honeywell. Not all that good. Have you looked at Yamaha, Honda, or Kipor? :question:


    :8ball:
     
  8. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    RE: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding



    One more thing here and then I will shut up. Remember P = E * I. So, 695 + 1545 = 2240. 2240 / 120 = 18.666 amps. Just a thought. ;)

    :8ball:
     
  9. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    RE: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Steve, I attempted to send a PM to Kenneth Hurt @ Grandview, as you had suggested, but not sure if I sent correctly, since it ended up in my outbox and I have no clue at this point as to how to forward it to Kenneth. :( John
     
  10. H2H1

    H2H1 Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    if it ended in you out box he got it. And if he does not answer let me know. Let me know (pm) and I will give you his office or cell number
     
  11. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding



    John, I have to apologize. I had a brain cramp. Your refer is a 12 volt system. Not 110 volt. Sorry for the mis-information. :blackeye: Have you been able to contact Ken yet? His office email is Kenneth@grandviewtrailersales.com



    :8ball:
     
  12. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding



    John, you confuse your request a bit when you speak of an "inverter" in a word by itself. An inverter is an electronic gadget that changes 12VDC to 120VAC. There are no moving parts in it. It is good to run your TV or radio off of your batteries when you have no other source of AC.

    Now, I'm pretty sure you are asking about a "generator" that is mechanical and operates from an attached engine.

    The newer types (not the only ones available) do have an electronic "inverter" system inside of them to generate the 120VAC for your RV. (The older designs are the traditional spinning rotor types with output voltage and frequency dependent on engine RPM.)

    There are many advantages to the "inverter" type of generator. One of them is constant frequency under load. Another advantage is called load sensing. When you don't have full load on them, the engine will idle down to save fuel. The best advantage of these generators is that they are really quiet most of the time.


    If you calculate a load close to 2,000, then I would recommend you look for a generator in the 3,000 range. I've learned not to try to get too close with "calculations".

    You'll be able to operate your A/C without worrying about kicking off breakers when you add other loads. You'll also be able to grow into the extra capacity without having to buy another bigger generator later.

    Honda makes a model 3000i that would fit that requirement. Yamaha has one, too. There are others.
     
  13. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Thanks, Steve! I really don't know whether the refer is 120V or 12V, as it's the same size 4.6 cf as another that I operate off of 120V. Yes, I did make contact with Ken @ Grandview, thanks. Ken said he would get back to me tomorrow.

    Thanks, Tex! My problem is I'm not sure as to how to calculate the load of my air cond. to determine and purchase the necessary capacity of an gasoline inverter-type generator......air cond. in my TT is a Frigidaire window type, 5K btu, per the specs: 5.2Amps, 515 Rated Watts; which is illogical because 5.2A * 120V should equal 640 Rated Watts, with projected/estimated surge watts of 1,872W. How should I determine the A.C. load, as you suggest......if it's calculated to be 2,000W, then I should purchase an inverter/generator at about 3,000W rating?

    I sure have to laugh that to operate via generator, generator cost is upward of $1,000 to run a cheap $100 window air cond. :)

    :) John
     
  14. Triple E

    Triple E Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    No problem John. Yes they cost but worth it. Tex and I both agree you will be better off with the 3 KW. Being a little over powered is better then being a little under powered. Keep us posted and don't become a stranger. ;)



    :8ball:
     
  15. TexasClodhopper

    TexasClodhopper Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    John, most RV A/C's are larger than that 5K window unit that you are using. A 2000 would probably be the MINIMUM powered unit to get. The same manufacturers will make that size, too.

    Do some research on the difference between "watts" (power) and "volt-amps".

    There is a difference, but if I try to explain it, some heads around here will explode! (Nash) :clown:
     
  16. C Nash

    C Nash Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Aw now Tex you'll and all your fancy testing equipment and knowledge. All I use to ck the power supply is have the wife stick a hairpin in the socket in the morning. If her hair curls there is plenty of juice. If it knocks her down, toooo much. If she jumps up and down to little. Hair curl JUST RIGHT :laugh: ;)
     
  17. Grandview Trailer Sa

    Grandview Trailer Sa Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    John,
    I was out of town yesterday all day, that is why I answered you late and my brain could not focus. After reading this, I know you want a generator. I thought you were wanting an inverter off a battery to run your stuff.

    I believe you can run your Refer. and AC with a 2,000 Honda, Kipor or the like. You may overload it occasionally, but not often enough to warrant the extra cost, and weight of the 3,000 version. Your surge wattage your talking about is only for a SMALL part of a second, and both would have to surge at the same time to overload the generator. The running wattage of 695 will be a piece of cake for a 2,000 watt generator. NOW, if you wife has a hair dryer, coffee pot or other things, that will be different.

    Others will correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I see it.
     
  18. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Ahhhh! Thanks to all who have guided me, thus far. This is becoming more clear to me by adding in those sneaky and pesky little amps into the big picture, I'm beginning to see the light. 2000W / 16.7A; 3000W / 25A.......8.33A / KW. Yes, 2000W is pretty limiting......3,000W/25A would be better, especially where I am so much the beginner. 3,000W offers more flexibility, with not that much more of a difference in cost, if one is careful in their shopping around among the several top brands of decent quality and reputation. Are there any brands I should be cautious about?


    :) John
     
  19. LEN

    LEN Senior Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Anyone who has a 2000 handy, what are the outputs fused or have breakers for 10 amp or 15 amp. What a lot of people don't realize is there are two ports for output on a 2000 thats two 1000 watts and on a 3000 thats two 1500 watts. So you can run the air on one side and the refer on the other and maybe a couple other items(small). Also this is at sea level, at altitude you lose quick. fFor example if your at Bryce canyon at near 10000 feet your down to 1/2 output power on the gen or any motor that is normally aspirated. So one pushing the edge on gen power better factor in where they are camping. I got a Kill-a-Watt gadget and it reads out amps watts and line voltage, very useful tool in finding out what an appliance really uses. Most are drawing less than quoted except for the wifes hair dryer and it does pull 1500 watts. And for those without EMS's it's a great tool to keep an eye on line voltage in a high use camp ground.

    LEN
     
  20. smilinjohn

    smilinjohn New Member

    Re: :( (sigh), yet another area of potential floundering and misunderstanding

    Len:

    Will there be enough wattage available while plugged into one side or port ((1,000W) of a 2,000W) or even ((1,500W) of a 3,000W) inverter/generator, where Air Cond. surges to 1,872W at startup? Air cond. is 5k btu window-type, 5.2A, 624W (Running).



    :) John
     

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