Well the brown jello stuff is actually a bacteria that will grow in diesel that has a minute amount of water in it. It some times happens, the water that is, when the refiner are running on the down sid eof their salt dryers trying to push too much through them. I am not taking up for the high prices here but the new epa regs put on diesel is what jumped the price up. The refiers have not come up with a new more economical way, just being lazy. to clean up the road grade diesel. The other thing about diesel is they get what they refine its not lke gas. They can take diesel and crack it to make gasoline but you can't do diddly to gas to make diesel. So much for refining 101
As far as diesel versus gas there is no question. Ask yourself, maintenance? No spark plugs, no ignition wires, longer oil change intervals, ect. Diesels are 30% more efficient in converting heat to energy thus more miles per tank. I do belive that diesel fuel has been exceptionally high since JW has been in office but lets let politics sort that out. Some of the current/future increased costs may be converting to low sulfer diesel required nationwide by 2010 and current in california and wasington for 07 (I'm sure threre are more but dont know). If the price of consrerving energy is paying excessive fuel prices today than so be it, but lets not forget that there is no reason not to conserve just because it may cost more. If the already low market of diesel vehicles sold in the US do not continue to grow then the option of this conservation will get further and further away. Diesels have come a long way in the past 5 years (much quieter, smoother, more powerfull) and still retain a 30% efficiency advantage over gas. Did you know that Audi won 24hrs of Lemans race with a diesel car (first overall including the fasest gas cars made today). This should give us some insight of the current potential of diesel versus gas). I hope that this has sparked new questions as well as answer some, thanks.
Hey 98tdi. Your post was a good informative post until you took your CHEAP shot at JW. Everybody knows the only control politicians have over the price of fuel is in controlling the amount per gallon of Federal/State taxes and the opening/closing of the spigot on the national emergency oil storage reserves. Lets stick to facts. I was paying an average of $1.25/gallon for diesel for the first 5 years of W's Presidency.
Long term, the supply, the demand and refinery capacity is the key. Short term the oil futures market speculators drive the price up or down. No politician wants the price of gas to be high. It slows the economy down, which is detrimental to all the politicians in power at the time. I do believe we live in a FREE market society. Which means the open and free market controls the cost/price of goods. Not the government.
As far as diesel being higher than gas right now you were 100% right about the change-over to ultra low sulfer keeping the price of diesel high. Since the major U.S. demand is for gas not diesel, the major oil companies are NOT going to concentrate their limited facilities on refining diesel.
So until we start driving diesel cars like they do in Europe, we will probably pay more for diesel than gas. :angry:
Who is 'JW'? Could you mean 'GW'? Sorry, he does not have much control over the price of gas or diesel. And any control he might have probably will cost us even more. ie, reducing gas taxes would increase the countries debt, 'bribing' the oil producers and/or the oil refiners to reduce the cost now will likely have a bigger cost later. Perhaps drilling oil in Alaska might lower the cost now, but at what long term cost?
The only way to reduce the price you pay for gas, is to use less of it. Drive 55, not 75. Walk/Bike/Public Transportation where practical. Arrange your trips efficiantly. Check into something like the 'Eco-Car' (70 MPG on Natural Gas - allegedly $0.90 a gallon, 3 seats, 450 mile range, 0 to 120 in 5 seconds) for your local travel.
It really is not explainable by me, but in three days traveling through Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and North Carolina, gas went from 2.39 to 2.15 to 2.03 to 2.42 to 2.49. Diesel was 10 to 20 cents higher for the most part.
It wasn't really cheaper in Illinois where we found ethenol mixes. If there was a trend, then the trend was that it was cheaper the further away from a large populated area that we got.
As for my earlier post, I did mean GW. But only as a timeline reference. As I said "but lets let politics sort that out". The current cost of a barrel of oil is around $63.00 US, and it's the lowest its been in months. The days of less than $20.00 a barrel (as recent as 1998) are long gone, so lets get back to the subject of the price of diesel. The price of diesel is exceptionally high as I remember it. It seems like diesel has always been the same or less than regular gas. As of recent years the tides have turned. My original post said it maybe due to the ensuing requirement for low sulfur diesel... and could be other reasons as well. The gasoline engine leaves little to improve upon to increase economy. Nearly everything has been tried to make it more efficient and yet the old school diesel still remains on top. With recent improvements in diesel technology and more improvements to come the picture has become clear. I can have more torque, the same horsepower, require less maintenance, and still consume less fuel.... Yes it comes with a premium but I believe it's well worth it.
Your talkin politics here... lets ask what the true price of gas is? There have been studies that inflate the price of gas in the US to over $6.00 a gallon. The rest of western culture pays.... well what is the current price of gas in.... lets say,... Canada, or Europe? British columbia 3.65 a gallon, England over $6.00 a gallon, but in the US.... less than $3.00 a gallon?.... well when you include the cost to support a war in Iraq things start to change. So what is the TRUE price of gas/diesel in the US? Are these studies all wrong?... maybe we should fit the cost of Iraq under a different cost/debt? Almost every other country pays more for fuel per gallon/litre than us... or do they?
98tdi, please remember that this is an RV forum, sir. Not a political or debate forum. You first say you will stop with the political rant, and then you start back up. There are plenty of debate and political forums around; this is not one of them.
When the threads here turn away from RV topics, such as the price of diesel, we start losing good informative RV comments from others.
Please hold the argumentative and political comments to a minimum. When you recognize that you've made a slip, then please stop. We don't want to run off RVers that are here for RV reasons only.
2.09 for unleaded here in Michigan but still 2.75 for diesel.Four weeks ago we paid 3.39 for unleaded in NewYork and when converting liters, 3.98 for unleaded in Canada. This is like riding a roller coaster, a bad one though!
I don't know how much less it costs to make diesel, but I know that it does.
My son-in-law works for an oil refinery and we were recently discussing this exact issue. He told me that it definitely takes less refining to make diesel fuel; therefore reduces the cost.
My $.02 --- oil refiners have finally realized that it takes money to own a diesel rig, therefore, those who own them must be able to afford higher prices. Am I correct in my belief --- I don't know. It just makes sense to me.
We are finally getting some price relief here in southeast Texas. Diesel is averaging $2.55 and unleaded regular is about $2.07. There is one place selling diesel at $2.36 and its an Exxon station! I am seeing regular unleaded at one place (also an Exxon) for $1.94.
With regard to diesel pricing vs gasoline - diesel requires less refining than gasoline so it has been historically less expensive than gasoline. Diesel has gone up in price in the winter months because of the demand for home heating oil in the northern states. That oil is a distillate like diesel and jet fuel. Diesel will generally go up in the winter and down in the summer, that is until the price gouging that has occured for the past year or so. The thing that is keeping diesel prices above gasoline prices now in the government mandate that refiners manufacture ultra low sulfur diesel. ULSD must have less than 15 ppm (parts per million) sulfur while the low sulfur diesel could contain up to 500 ppm. That does make the refining process much more expensive. By the way, I work in a major refinery and I make this stuff for a living. I also pay the same price as everyone else so it's important to me too.
Welcome to the forum mudflat. I have a small question about gouging. Last Spring the price of oil spiked due to Katrina and other demand factors. To put it succinctly, the price spiked due to excess demand and not enough supply. You call this gouging by the oil companies. Now that the supply exceeds the demand and the price of oil/gas has fallen precipitously, do you now call this a give away by major oil? Just wondering. :evil: