Adamthegreat
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kop
kop
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- Thread starter Iris Leuntjens
- Start date
David_Rarden
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Dear Adamthegreat .... I for one, as a person that has been ripped off by an RV dealer, am offended by you post ... Are you an RV dealer perhaps? have you ever been ripped off for all or part of your life savings? are you really standing up against someone looking for a little sympathy and help for what they have been through?
"Most" RV dealers are nothing more than "Tin men" who have found a new method for fleasing the un-suspecting, honest hardworking couple of peace and happyness ....
It turns out that trusting ones fellow americans to do the right thing in this day and age warrents being ripped off ...
I say, that we all have to stand together as one these days .. to help and to protect each other .... from all threats ... external and internal ... meaning bad RV dealers as well as others ....
Just my two cents worth ....
Dear Adamthegreat .... I for one, as a person that has been ripped off by an RV dealer, am offended by you post ... Are you an RV dealer perhaps? have you ever been ripped off for all or part of your life savings? are you really standing up against someone looking for a little sympathy and help for what they have been through?
"Most" RV dealers are nothing more than "Tin men" who have found a new method for fleasing the un-suspecting, honest hardworking couple of peace and happyness ....
It turns out that trusting ones fellow americans to do the right thing in this day and age warrents being ripped off ...
I say, that we all have to stand together as one these days .. to help and to protect each other .... from all threats ... external and internal ... meaning bad RV dealers as well as others ....
Just my two cents worth ....
Adamthegreat
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ooooookkkkkk....
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I know just what you are going through. We purchased a 2004 fleetwood ax6 5th wheel from Virginia Rv Sales in Yorktown, Va.
This thing has been in the shop 8 times for a total of at least 3 months of time for multiple problems. The lemon law in Va. does not pertain to trailers.. only vehicles with engines. We have tried to trade it with no luck.. We have exhaused all avenues except to start an advertising scheme of our own or to sue the dealer and manufacturer. That is still in the works but they did not charge us 20,000. You need to look elsewhere and if you can't find anyone that will take the case, email me and I will give you the attorney we have out of Richmond Virginia. Up to this point the warranty has been extended but we are not comfortable with just that outcome.
Good luck and Happy Holidays.
Art and Stacy
I know just what you are going through. We purchased a 2004 fleetwood ax6 5th wheel from Virginia Rv Sales in Yorktown, Va.
This thing has been in the shop 8 times for a total of at least 3 months of time for multiple problems. The lemon law in Va. does not pertain to trailers.. only vehicles with engines. We have tried to trade it with no luck.. We have exhaused all avenues except to start an advertising scheme of our own or to sue the dealer and manufacturer. That is still in the works but they did not charge us 20,000. You need to look elsewhere and if you can't find anyone that will take the case, email me and I will give you the attorney we have out of Richmond Virginia. Up to this point the warranty has been extended but we are not comfortable with just that outcome.
Good luck and Happy Holidays.
Art and Stacy
Iris Leuntjens
New Member
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David and Dochem, Have you read all that is going on in talkback? If there is anything else that you would like to say or know from me please e-mail me at
caac@msn.com. We will go forward, and hopefully make this right. I look forward to hearing from you.
David and Dochem, Have you read all that is going on in talkback? If there is anything else that you would like to say or know from me please e-mail me at
caac@msn.com. We will go forward, and hopefully make this right. I look forward to hearing from you.Reasonable legal assistance
Calif Has no lemon law for RV either.
I own a 2002 W-31 bounder and yes it is a lemon.
54 days in the shop in the first 6 months.
We still have 24 problems.
At this time we have sue Fleetwood ent.,Dan Gamel RV and workhorse chassie.
What a mess.
Its to bad that fleetwood builds RVs with so many problems. They seem to have very good floor plans. Woo I said somting good about them? Sorry for that slip.
Patrick
Calif Has no lemon law for RV either.
I own a 2002 W-31 bounder and yes it is a lemon.
54 days in the shop in the first 6 months.
We still have 24 problems.
At this time we have sue Fleetwood ent.,Dan Gamel RV and workhorse chassie.
What a mess.
Its to bad that fleetwood builds RVs with so many problems. They seem to have very good floor plans. Woo I said somting good about them? Sorry for that slip.
Patrick
Reasonable legal assistance
Iris,
I'm and attorney in Louisiana. I don't know the law in Iowa, but most state are fairly similar, and those that don't have lemon laws still have laws to protect buyers like you. But, you have to get an attorney! State senators and politicos are not likely to help. You don't have a "political" problem, you a legal dispute and are supposed to go to a Judge. The attorney you talked too was too high, keep looking. I charge $135 per hour and you can find attorney in that range, or less, especially in smaller towns. You have to find one who is sharp, aggressive, upcoming,(young), yet still hungary for new business. Old guys who have all they can hanldle and more don't need your kind of case because it is aggravating. Client thinks we are charging too much, and defendant is sitting there with an attorney who is a pro on these cases and has already handled a 300 or so for this client and knows all the ins and outs, so you know your in for a heated, tricky battle against a seasoned specialist in just this type of case. So, you worry about losing after a long and expensive battle, and if you win client still is unhappy and thinks the fee was too high so attorneys tend to pass these cases up. They are on par with a child custody case, where Client is never happy with the results no matter which side you take,or what the judge does, and always thinks the fee was too high.
I do personal injury, medical malpractice, insurance company won't pay cases,oil and gas (for landowners only) and serious contract disputes. I wouldn't take your case either for above reasons. It's not my area and I have plenty of problem cases where I have tons of experience and know what I'm doing. However, if you will call me I have a book that lists and rates (for talent and integrity) every attorney in your state. It's not always right, but you can at least tell who the other attorney's there respect the most. I will look up your town or nearby towns and give you some names to call --FREE, that's right free. They also shouldn't charge anything to tell you on your first (very short) phone call if they handle your type of case and what their hourly rate is. (distinguished from and office visit that takes up 15-30 minutes of their time, and client puts them on the spot "Can you win?" (atty hasn't even hear the defense yet, which contrary to ALL the posts here, often turns out to be a real thorn cause dealer knows the law and exactly what he can do, and you don't--example he stalls knowning there is a short deadline for you to sue, return, and document your complaint in writing, fine print limiting warranty, etc.)
You may have a hard time finding an atty because you don't have the type of case attorneys want, but there is a hungry/agressive/fair charging atty somewhere out there, always is - Your job is to call around until you find him. I'll tell you on the phone how to describe you case in a few words so he can decide quickly and get off the phone in a few minutes if he does't want the case.(thus no charge usually to you) Your not going to get anywhere until your lawyer notifies the dealer he is going to be sued. That may not do it.
Then you sue and then the whole deal is different. Now the dealer is looking at probably $200 -250 per hour for his hot shot atty and he fixing to spend some real bucks, because he's learned his atty can't seem to figure out how to settle until he's run up a bill of $10-20,000, so once you sue you have a LOT more leverage, and the dealer is a lot more willing to listen to you , like, how can he satisfy you so you will go away. Maybe your best bet is to sue and then (give up your request he take it back and refund you, and agree to LET him to fix up the RV good enough so you can sell it and not feel quilty, or worse be sued yourself by the buyer, which is a whole "nother" problem.
Some real good insurance defense attorneys in Shreveport only charge $75 per hour (to the Ins Co -- volume discount to get all their business) so if you shop around you might find a good atty for a lower fee. $20,000 up front was rediculous. I've been practing 30 years and have never ask for that much up front. But, we do like some up front so we won't be stiffed down the line. You might be able to agree to a cap(maximum) on the atty fee and if you can't bluff and settle by then you can always stop the suit and simply withdraw. I've done that a lot when I realize, like your case, that nothing short of a suit is going to get the defendant's attention, but that so much equity is on our side he can't really afford the expense to go to trial and should settle. I tell client I may withdraw if I can't settle and/or client wants to stop attorney fees.
I could go on forever -- legal stuff is very technical and tricky.
If you want my recommendations call me at toll free 800 377 0123.
Tell secretary you are calling about a lemon RV and email I sent you.
I work with my son with the same name so ask for the father.
Charles (not name I really go by but it will work.)
Iris,
I'm and attorney in Louisiana. I don't know the law in Iowa, but most state are fairly similar, and those that don't have lemon laws still have laws to protect buyers like you. But, you have to get an attorney! State senators and politicos are not likely to help. You don't have a "political" problem, you a legal dispute and are supposed to go to a Judge. The attorney you talked too was too high, keep looking. I charge $135 per hour and you can find attorney in that range, or less, especially in smaller towns. You have to find one who is sharp, aggressive, upcoming,(young), yet still hungary for new business. Old guys who have all they can hanldle and more don't need your kind of case because it is aggravating. Client thinks we are charging too much, and defendant is sitting there with an attorney who is a pro on these cases and has already handled a 300 or so for this client and knows all the ins and outs, so you know your in for a heated, tricky battle against a seasoned specialist in just this type of case. So, you worry about losing after a long and expensive battle, and if you win client still is unhappy and thinks the fee was too high so attorneys tend to pass these cases up. They are on par with a child custody case, where Client is never happy with the results no matter which side you take,or what the judge does, and always thinks the fee was too high.
I do personal injury, medical malpractice, insurance company won't pay cases,oil and gas (for landowners only) and serious contract disputes. I wouldn't take your case either for above reasons. It's not my area and I have plenty of problem cases where I have tons of experience and know what I'm doing. However, if you will call me I have a book that lists and rates (for talent and integrity) every attorney in your state. It's not always right, but you can at least tell who the other attorney's there respect the most. I will look up your town or nearby towns and give you some names to call --FREE, that's right free. They also shouldn't charge anything to tell you on your first (very short) phone call if they handle your type of case and what their hourly rate is. (distinguished from and office visit that takes up 15-30 minutes of their time, and client puts them on the spot "Can you win?" (atty hasn't even hear the defense yet, which contrary to ALL the posts here, often turns out to be a real thorn cause dealer knows the law and exactly what he can do, and you don't--example he stalls knowning there is a short deadline for you to sue, return, and document your complaint in writing, fine print limiting warranty, etc.)
You may have a hard time finding an atty because you don't have the type of case attorneys want, but there is a hungry/agressive/fair charging atty somewhere out there, always is - Your job is to call around until you find him. I'll tell you on the phone how to describe you case in a few words so he can decide quickly and get off the phone in a few minutes if he does't want the case.(thus no charge usually to you) Your not going to get anywhere until your lawyer notifies the dealer he is going to be sued. That may not do it.
Then you sue and then the whole deal is different. Now the dealer is looking at probably $200 -250 per hour for his hot shot atty and he fixing to spend some real bucks, because he's learned his atty can't seem to figure out how to settle until he's run up a bill of $10-20,000, so once you sue you have a LOT more leverage, and the dealer is a lot more willing to listen to you , like, how can he satisfy you so you will go away. Maybe your best bet is to sue and then (give up your request he take it back and refund you, and agree to LET him to fix up the RV good enough so you can sell it and not feel quilty, or worse be sued yourself by the buyer, which is a whole "nother" problem.
Some real good insurance defense attorneys in Shreveport only charge $75 per hour (to the Ins Co -- volume discount to get all their business) so if you shop around you might find a good atty for a lower fee. $20,000 up front was rediculous. I've been practing 30 years and have never ask for that much up front. But, we do like some up front so we won't be stiffed down the line. You might be able to agree to a cap(maximum) on the atty fee and if you can't bluff and settle by then you can always stop the suit and simply withdraw. I've done that a lot when I realize, like your case, that nothing short of a suit is going to get the defendant's attention, but that so much equity is on our side he can't really afford the expense to go to trial and should settle. I tell client I may withdraw if I can't settle and/or client wants to stop attorney fees.
I could go on forever -- legal stuff is very technical and tricky.
If you want my recommendations call me at toll free 800 377 0123.
Tell secretary you are calling about a lemon RV and email I sent you.
I work with my son with the same name so ask for the father.
Charles (not name I really go by but it will work.)
Reasonable legal assistance
To Iris
Unfortunatly charles is right and the best way to get thier att is to sue. Yes its expencive and time consuming. My att in calif charges 150. per hr this seems to be typ. I just found out that there is an attorney in my area that will do it on a coningent basis. This would have been a better avenue for us had I known. My bills are over 20,000 at this point. If we wern't paying the attorney we could be driving a new rv and let the bounder sit as it is now! ouch.
Hope the best for you.
PS when is someone(attoerny) Going to file a class action against fleetwood for thie treatment of cusomers/massive defects rear after year
pjj703@sbcglobal.net
Patrick
To Iris
Unfortunatly charles is right and the best way to get thier att is to sue. Yes its expencive and time consuming. My att in calif charges 150. per hr this seems to be typ. I just found out that there is an attorney in my area that will do it on a coningent basis. This would have been a better avenue for us had I known. My bills are over 20,000 at this point. If we wern't paying the attorney we could be driving a new rv and let the bounder sit as it is now! ouch.
Hope the best for you.
PS when is someone(attoerny) Going to file a class action against fleetwood for thie treatment of cusomers/massive defects rear after year
pjj703@sbcglobal.net
Patrick
Iris Leuntjens
New Member
Reasonable legal assistance
Dean, No, I did not think of a certified letter. (Duh, I think my brain is fried.) I did try e-mail, letters, phone calls, going through the dealership, everything else. Thank you very much, can I contact you if I need more mental help? I will give your suggestion a try. Thanks again, Iris
Dean, No, I did not think of a certified letter. (Duh, I think my brain is fried.) I did try e-mail, letters, phone calls, going through the dealership, everything else. Thank you very much, can I contact you if I need more mental help? I will give your suggestion a try. Thanks again, Iris
Reasonable legal assistance
Iris, You sure can. We wrote a certified letter to the C.E.O. of Four Winds., on a problem that we had with our 1 yr. old unit. It was safety related. We got a response in less then a week. The solution is supposedly in the works. Look up your manufacturers web page, get the officers of the company's names and addresses. And write a nice detailed letter telling them of your problems that you are having and that you are not a HAPPY CAMPER. Picture with a digital camera would help too. I will keep you all posted on MY progress [still in the works]. See my posting in GENERAL section under SEAT BELT PROBLEMS! Good luck DEAN deanh64@comcast.net
Iris, You sure can. We wrote a certified letter to the C.E.O. of Four Winds., on a problem that we had with our 1 yr. old unit. It was safety related. We got a response in less then a week. The solution is supposedly in the works. Look up your manufacturers web page, get the officers of the company's names and addresses. And write a nice detailed letter telling them of your problems that you are having and that you are not a HAPPY CAMPER. Picture with a digital camera would help too. I will keep you all posted on MY progress [still in the works]. See my posting in GENERAL section under SEAT BELT PROBLEMS! Good luck DEAN deanh64@comcast.net