Why, why, why?

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

But when someone logs on to complain about others, then I know that I am on the wrong site. When someone complains like this, it says alot more about their character then it could ever say about the ones being complained about. Do you mean like this? Why would you judge all of Quebec by a few people? You seem very small-minded to me

stop being a hypocrite....and you are correct about the United States and the "FRENCH" as opposed to French-Canadian who sided with the colonies only to stick it to the english...and also sided with the Confederacy against the Union....

The French-speaking people of Quebec are not French with the exception of origin 500 years ago, they have a different and seperately distinct culture than people from France. There are also Acadians (New Brunswick and Nova Scotia) who immigrated to the south as well as the Metis culture of Manitoba who mixed with the indigenous Indian population whose culture is also separate and distinct. All have contributed to the history of Canada and some have been persecuted and hunted down like the Indians of the Great plains of the USA (the metis)

Finally, give up with the attacks...we are all entitled to our opinions....I have tried to give mine and backed it up with personal experiences and/or other facts. If you would like to discuss this further with me, send me an email rather than wasting the forums time. You can get email by clicking on the WWW.

 

[Kirk]

Re: Why, why, why?

Snowbird,
We have had a mixed experience with the French speaking Canadians. Last fall, we spent about two weeks in Quebec City and Montreal. We had a wonderful time while there and we had only good experiences, with one minor gripe. That is that we found many of them to be very quick to tell us how they like Americans, but not our government. While I'm not always a fan of our government either, we got pretty tired of our hosts telling us that, even while seeking our business in their establishments.

On the other hand, we have just completed a three month stay in a San Antonio RV park that get a lot of folks from Canada, mostly from Quebec, Ontario and a few from Manitoba and Saskatchewan. It is quite common for those from Quebec to come in groups and when they do, seldom to any of them speak to or in any way acknowledge the presence of those who do not speak French. We find those from Ontario and the other provinces to be mostly very friendly and nice and became really good friends with a couple who spent a month next to us, from Ontario. We plan to visit them at their home next year. They were wonderful folks!

Last summer, while in far north Maine, we spent a great deal of time visiting New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. We had a great time and found everyone there to be quite friendly and helpful to American visitors. And PEI must be the most friendly place in the entire world! Over all, we have found most Canadian folks to be very friendly and we enjoy spending time with them and plan to see more of Canada this summer. We did find that those who spoke French were much less friendly than any of the others, but we wonder if it may be partly that some of them are not comfortable speaking our language? When we visit Quebec, we do try to be friendly to all who we come into contact with, but we still tend to spend most of our time with people who speak our language.

We too have found that our English speaking Canadian friends are not often complimentary about their French speaking countrymen.

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

Kirk, good post.
I used to think that comfort with the language was the reason for this but discounted it for the following reasons:
Canada is officially a bi-lingal country...by that I mean, government and provinces must communicate in both languages equally, ie road signs, official documents, intent etc.
In 1977, the province of Quebec overwhelmingly voted that the official language in the province to be French and only French, ie same as above.
I know a lot of Mainers who say that they get the same behavior every summer mostly in the Old Orchard Beach and Saco area which gets deluged by tourists coming in from Quebec. In that area they have been made to feel unwelcome in their own towns and state however it is tolerated due to the large tourist dollar influence in a state that is not the richest in the country(but certainly one of the most scenic).

Hello is a universal greeting especially with a friendly wave...it can even be followed by "Je non parle Anglais" in the reply....I would get their meaning....I have travelled all over the world and had very little trouble communicating with people even with no clue how to speak their language. I do not believe lack of linguistic skill to be an excuse for rudeness or standoffish behavior. I hope that an objective view of how some French-Canadians are perceived may permit those that are that way to re-evaluate their behavior. You are correct that many English-speaking Canadians do not think of most French-Canadians in a complimentay manner, unfortunately. If they do not have a basis, that is bigotry. I have not seen much bigotry in Canada and the only province I have not been to was the Yukon. That being said, I will always greet in a friendly manner no matter where I am...if no courteous reply is returned, then it is their loss.

BTW, many communities in Canada have free camping areas some including utilities...they have an honor donation system, nothing is expected, any is appreciated. One very beautiful place is Churchill Park in Cambridge Ontario. 90 miles from Niagara, 60 from Toronto and 10 from one of the largest Mennonite communities in the country....the farmers market in Kitchener is well known and appreciated from its fresh foods and beautiful wares.

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

to be fair, the Supreme court of Canada ruled the 1977 law to be unconstitutional, however compliance has been fought vigorously to outright disregarded. But enact the same laws in other provinces for pro-english and Quebec wails like banshees being dragged by the heels...hahaha...go figure huh?
many large corporations have resisted this mandatoy regulation of how they communicate which has cost them dearly in lost business prospects from the global community as well as stiff fines from the Office québécois de la langue française which is more commonly known in Canada as the "language police" which I personally always thought of as draconian.

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

SnowbirdInFlight, after thinking long and hard on this subject which has vexed me for a very long time and I have not thought about it in a while, I think that I may have an answer or part of it to your question as to Why, Why, Why?

to sum it up, Cultural Idenity Crisis---I suspect that many Quebec francophones feel an overwhelming need to protect there language and culture which either perceived or real, is threatened by cultural assimilation that occurred throughout the rest of Canada due to immigration of other ethnic groups. Many ethnic group have in fact assimilated into what is now Canada. These groups still retain their culture with maintenance of language being more personal (family) or community oriented and english eventually becoming their primary language. Quebec has always resisted this and always demanded equal billing for francophone language and culture even though their numbers equate to 20% of the population vs 60% with English as their mother tongue. The other 20% being comprised of various other languages, ie Chinese and German. It may be that this cultural identity is impressed on their young much like indoctrination. I believe that even here in the U.S., we are slowly starting to see resistance to the "melting pot" as certain groups here expect similar considerations. If you spoke to them in French you would probably receive a warm hello and welcome, even outside of Quebec where English is the primary language but not due to a lack of comfort with trying to speak English. Many francophones understand English as good as you or I through necessity in many workplaces due to corporate refusal to go along with Francophone language requirements and a need to communicate in English when necessary. An example is Bank of Montreal which was the largest bank in Canada. It changed its name to BMO Financial Group and moved its Corporate operations as well as all senior staff to Toronto rather than submit to Quebec language laws. As I stated, many francophone understand and speak English, they just choose not to.

I think I have finally answer this puzzle that has plagued me for years. Even though I have had many francophone friends and half being from Quebec, they would always avoid that question.

 

[DL Rupper]

Re: Why, why, why?

I believe if we are to travel to particular location we as RV'ers should know what to expect. That is what this forum is for. So to say this subject has nothing to do with RV'ing is short sighted. Some people do not like to say anything negative about anyone or any product, for fear of hurting someone's feelings. That is called being politically correct and it is being applied to the extreme lately. If the French Canadians don't like us, why should we go there or defend their poor manners. It's time to get our heads out.

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

I completely agree, even though I wouldn't personally travel to many areas of the middle-east, and I am not making a comparison by any stretch of the imagination, I would certainly like to know about issues that would be relevent to my stay. Everyone can benefit when dialog is open, honest, and without malice.

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

Well, maybe South Central L.A. would have been a better analogy haha although, I don't know, the middle-east might be safer!!!

 

[SnowbirdInFlight]

Re: Why, why, why?

Well, like I said, I'm always willing to give them another chance. Maybe we'll try Manitoba and see how friendly they are there.

It's just that I always thought a smile and a wave of the hand

was a universal thing and transcended the language barrier. I mean really, how hard is it to just raise your hand and give a little wave

or even a slight nod of the head? Maybe it's because I was raised in a small town where everyone was always waving and saying hi to each other.

You would think that them being in our country they would pick up on a few of our habits.

 

[benwd]

Re: Why, why, why?

I lived in Alberta some years ago and have travelled Canada a lot. The Canadians feel the same way you do about French Canadians.

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

SnowBirdInFlight, thank you, thank you, thank you, for the Vet link, what a plethora of great info, especially PTSD. I have two sons over there right now, the older one will be coming home in a few weeks (permanently) and the other returning from deployment in 3 months with 2 years to go. I don't mind saying, I am scared to death as I suspect it is affecting my oldest. God knows I hope I am wrong. This will make for good reading.

 

[SnowbirdInFlight]

Re: Why, why, why?



You're very welcome Joe and welcome to the board!

I'm sure I speak for everyone on this board when I say I pray for your sons safe return and give them a heartfelt thank you for their service to our wonderful country. It's men like these that keep all of us safe and free here at home!

Feel free to visit the VIN message board anytime and all the vets there are more than willing to help you with any questions on PTSD or any other problem our veterans have to deal with after returning home.

 

[DL Rupper]

Re: Why, why, why?

Hey gnomingroam, welcome to the forum. I thank your sons for their service. Both my sons have served in the Air National Guard for over 20 years. I'm a proud father and am glad that we still have individuals in this Great Country willing to give all so the rest of us can say as we please, do what we like and go where we want. RVing is great in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

 

[patrice]

Re: Why, why, why?

:blackeye: ok now i no why i did not have to much chance whit my other post in the full timer tread!i am a french canadian if you have any question i will try to anwser them onestly! there is no reason why the people here look lees nicer than the others! but maybe explanation?sometime these french speaking person dont speek well english and they are shy?and it is normal that the oter canadian think why are bizarre in the army we have to go to the court to have instruction in french if they by new equipment all kind of these thing happend all the time for us in canada ! it is not easy to be different in north america now! french canadian where the one that bring Lewis and clark in the west! i dont think that we have nothing againts the us ,most of the people here have relative in us like me my grant mather was born in wyoming i have cousin in alabama ,texas and it is to bad the way it is going i will try slowly to change your perception!
Patrice ! :blackeye:

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

Hi Patrice, thank you for your help in understanding this issue. The question has been asked, ie why why why however, I am not sure I understand your answer. My question is due to questions arising from thinking about the original so its answer may help understand the bigger picture. As to the Canadian Army, I served in the Canadian Navy from 76 to 86 and understand the difficulties francophones faced. However, not everything can be translated in a timely manner especially when dealing with new equipment. It is worse when it is a foreign supplier. Cost is also a factor. But, unlike yourself who makes a good faith attempt at communication in a language that is not native to you, many will not. As I stated in an earlier post, 60% of the population in Canada speaks English with Fr. following in 2nd place with 20%. I knew many that went through the language immersion program and quite successfully I might add. One of the greatest burdens on the Canadian economic picture has been due to being held hostage to mandatory bi-lingulalism by a fifth of the population to be imposed on only 4/5 of its population. ie, exempting Quebec. I took 5 years of French in high school (it was mandatory but i was fine with that). I think that the people of Quebec and its government could make the situation better by being part of the solution which unfortunately I feel they fall far short on. The French I took was Parisian French due to it being considered one of the four higher languages. (university legalise). Speaking it to a francophone however honorable the intention, was met with a gaze equivilent to kicking their mother. So I guess the real question is why their is an animosity to anything other than French-Canadian?

computer aided translation provided for clarity,
Bonjour Patrice, merci de votre aide dans l'arrangement cette issue. On a posé la question, IE pourquoi pourquoi pourquoi cependant, je ne suis pas sûr je comprenez votre réponse. Ma question est due aux questions résultant de penser à l'original ainsi sa réponse peut aider à comprendre l'image plus grande. Quant à l'armée canadienne, j'ai servi dans la marine canadienne de 76 à 86 et comprends les francophones de difficultés faits face. Cependant, pas tout peut être traduit d'une façon opportune particulièrement en traitant le nouvel équipement. Il est plus mauvais quand c'est un fournisseur étranger. Le coût est également un facteur. Mais, à la différence de vous-même qui fait une tentative de bonne foi de communication dans une langue qui n'est pas indigène à vous, beaucoup pas . Comme j'ai énoncé dans un poteau plus tôt, 60% de la population au Canada parle anglais avec la vue suivant dans le 2ème endroit avec 20%. J'ai su que beaucoup qui sont passés par le programme d'immersion de langue et tout à fait avec succès je pourrais m'ajouter. Un des plus grands fardeaux sur l'image économique canadienne a été dû à être tenu en otage du Bi-lingulalism obligatoire par un cinquième de la population à imposer seulement à 4/5 de sa population. IE, exemptant le Québec. J'ai pris 5 ans du français dans le lycée (il était obligatoire mais j'étais très bien avec celui). Je pense que les personnes du Québec et de son gouvernement pourraient rendre la situation meilleure en faisant partie de la solution qui malheureusement je me sens qu'elles tombent short lointain sur. Les Français que j'ai pris étaient Français parisien dû à lui étant considéré une des quatre langues plus élevées (l'université légalisent). La parlant cependant à un honorable francophone l'intention, a été rencontrée un regard fixe equivilent à donner un coup de pied leur mère. Ainsi je devine que la vraie question est pourquoi leur est une animosité à n'importe quoi autre que Français-Canadien ?

 

[gnomingroam]

Re: Why, why, why?

Thank you all for you kind words regarding my lads, you people are in the 50% category who do care about our men and women in uniform... yes, I am very proud of them for their sacrifice. I hope they do not return to a hate-filled America (not all Americans) like some did during Vietnam. I had a friend who returned from there who unfortunately could not handle it. His pain was exaserbated by this and he ended it. So you can understand my fears. That was the past and in no way necessarily reflects on the future, however, I have never been able to get over his passing.
God Bless

 

[patrice]

Re: Why, why, why?

:blackeye: well you no french is everything except a foreing language in north america a dilution append but french was spoke in all what is now the us ,st louis was a french town! the first mayor of san -fransico was a fellow from montreal in fact i is burried here and a funny fact is that is brother was also the mayor of montreal at the same time !look at a telephone book anywhere and you will be amase how many french name you will see fun fact to is there is more french desendant in the us than we are here in quebec now! i really think that we hare the same people whit a diiferent background history made us different but also history can make a chage in the future! the hate of other canadian is like a nationnal sport in canada we are like the black shepp of the contry but now it is changing slolwy !2 month ago we have bing recongnize as a nation !and for that french if there is no law a few yaers and it is finish

 

[DL Rupper]

Re: Why, why, why?

I made a really scary discovery the other day. My Great grandmother besides being an immediate descendant of Mormon pioneers (Great-Great Grandfather RV'ed in covered wagon across the Plains with Brigham Young) is of Royal Scottish Stewart blood. What is dismaying is that the royal Scottish Stewart's are descended from Breton (France) in the Norman Invasions in 1066. That means I have "French" blood coursing through my veins. What next. :laugh: Oh well as beautiful, historic, quaint, and educational as Quebec City is, I probably won't go back due to the difficulties encountered with the French Canadians. I felt very uncomfortable there.

It is probably time to move off this subject and on to more constructive RVing issues. We each need to make up our own minds about RVing in Quebec. :angry:

 

[TexasClodhopper]

Re: Why, why, why?

" It is probably time to move off this subject and on to more constructive RVing issues. We each need to make up our own minds about RVing in Quebec. "

'bout time somebody came to their senses!!

 

[patrice]

Re: Why, why, why?

was only trying to help ? will not post no more ! maybe one day i will try to make you come here for a summer ride on the dark side of america :evil:

By
take care
Patrice!